Episode 17 - The Bookish Doctor

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Transcript

0:00:07 - (Nicole): Hey everyone.

0:00:08 - (Nicole): It's time to bring your kid to work. It's the family podcast that explores the world of work through the eyes of parents and their kids. Each week, we interview one parent and their child to chat about what they do for work, what they like, what they don't like, and how they got there in the first place. Let's find out who we're talking to today. Welcome to season two of bring your kid to work. We have an incredible line up of guests for you this season. I can't wait to introduce them to you.

0:00:38 - (Nicole): To launch season two.We have two amazing guests today. They are Dr. Zewlan Moor and her daughter Ramona. What a treat you're in for this dynamic duo, buzz with energy, and it's hardly a surprise given all they're busy doing. Zewlan is a general practitioner, but not in the way most of us experience our family GP. Zewlan works as a surgical assistant, using robots to help remove cancer from men's prostates. She also works in another clinic that focuses on diagnosing skin cancer. As if that isn't enough, she's also a celebrated children's book author with two books, ‘nothing alike’ and ‘The Bill Dup’. And if you're feeling tired, hold on to your hats because she's also a bibliotherapist. We'll hear about what that means in this episode. She lives on the lands of the Yugembah people on the Gold coast with her husband and two children. And she loves to read, practice medicine and combine the two through her private practice. Byron bibliotherapy and one of those kids joins us on the pod today.

0:01:42 - (Nicole): Her daughter Ramona. Ramona is heading into year ten and not exactly sure what kind of job she sees in her future but has a big adventure ahead of her. And we get to chat about that I think it's going to inspire you as much as it did me. We had a fabulous chat and I can't wait for you to hear it. So ,let's get on with the show.

0:02:02 - (Nicole): Welcome, both of you, to bring your kid to work. This episode is called the bookish doctor and we are very excited to welcome two dynamic guests. Firstly, I'll get my youngest guest to introduce herself. Tell me a little bit about yourself.

0:02:17 - (Ramona): I'm Ramona and I'm 14. I'm in grade nine. Well, I'm going into grade ten

0:02:26 - (Nicole): awesome, Ramona. Thank you very much. And our other guest - Introduce yourself, please.

0:02:34 - (Zewlan): Well, hello. My name is Zewlan, Zewlan Moor and I'm Ramona's mum. I'm a bookish doctor, so keep listening to hear more. So I work as a doctor, but I also work as a bibliotherapist and children's book author, and I currently have two picture books that are out and a few more on the way.

0:02:58 - (Nicole): Oh, a few more. That's exciting.

0:03:00 - (Zewlan): One of them is meant to be coming out next year and the other one in 2026. That's how long you have to wait.

0:03:08 - (Nicole): That is a long time. Ramona, your mum is a doctor. An author, a bibliotherapist. That's a lot of things.

0:03:18 - (Ramona): Yeah.

0:03:19 - (Nicole): What does she do all day?

0:03:21 - (Ramona): Well, if she's working in Brisbane, which she is a quarter of the time, she will just drive to Brisbane in the morning. She is a surgical assistant and she works with robots. And then when she's home, if she's not working, she usually just goes to the library and writes and that's mostly it.

0:03:45 - (Nicole): Wow, that sounds like a busy kind of life. Zewlan, how did Ramona go? Did she get that pretty right?

0:03:52 - (Zewlan): Yeah, she did, actually. Yeah. So I guess I work 0.8 full time equivalent, but actually my days off I write, and I still count that as a job, so I probably write more than full time, actually. The work that sort of pays the bills is my surgical assisting work. And Ramona got that right. It's with robotics that it's robotic prostatectomies. So when men have prostate cancer, one of the options for treatment is to have surgery and laparoscopically, but robotically assisted because there's such precision in the instruments with using the robot. It's called a master slave technique. So it's not the robot operating, it's the surgeon operating, but through the robot. So they put their hands into the instruments and their view is magnified by ten.

0:04:45 - (Zewlan): So they can see a lot of anatomical detail that I don't see on the screen. By being able to see the nerves better, they can sort of do a nerve sparing procedure that still gets all the prostate cancer out. So it's really quite revolutionized the field. And I've been working in that since Ramona was two, so for twelve years now. And so I enjoy that

0:05:09 - (Nicole): Wow in a Hospital operating theatre, in surgery pretty much all day long.

0:05:13 - (Zewlan): Yeah, in the hospital. I do also work at a clinic, so I'm trained as a GP, but I don't do traditional general practice anymore. I do skin cancer diagnosis and surgery. Before I did my GP training, I was training as a urology trainee. I good procedurally, I'm good with my hands. I had to really learn a lot of stuff for the skin cancer diagnosis and so I upskilled in that area and now do that a bit. Yeah. So that's my medical work now. So it's funny with GP, because it's such a broad field, you might meet a GP who does not do what you typically think a GP does.

0:05:51 - (Nicole): Yeah, well, that surprised me because I think about a GP, a general practitioner, as someone that I go to, I take my kids to when I'm not feeling well and I don't know what's quite wrong and they'll help me, direct me in the right way in a family practice that we go to. So, yeah, that's a really different idea of what a GP can do. That's amazing.

0:06:12 - (Zewlan): Yeah. We always try to tell the medical students and the junior doctors that general practice is a very broad and flexible specialty. It takes most of the graduates. It is a specialty on its own and it has a very specific skill set, which I think people may not see when they're just seeing their own issue. Maybe older people get an idea of what general practitioners actually do because there's so much coordinating care in aged care and chronic disease that I guess when you're a young person, you just go to the doctor for a cold, for the pill, but you don't see the rest of the work that gps do.

0:06:53 - (Nicole): Yeah, no, you've really broadened my horizons on what gps do. So thank you for that. Ramona, how long did it take mum to train to learn to be at uni, to get to be a GP, do you know?

0:07:10 - (Ramona): Probably about seven years, maybe.

0:07:13 - (Nicole): That close, Zewlan?

0:07:15 - (Zewlan): Yeah, that's close. So the undergrad med at UNSW was six years, so I enrolled in that, but I also enrolled in the combined arts degree. So there's a medical and arts combined degree and there's a medical and science degree down there and they're seven years. So I did the medical and arts then. I loved the arts so much, I did an honors year in arts, so that made it an eight year degree. And then after I graduated, so that was 2004, I worked.

0:07:47 - (Zewlan): Everyone has to work as a junior doctor. Then I got on to my further training program, which was urology. I had Ramona during my training and I found it really difficult to juggle and also there were just aspects of the career that I didn't really enjoy. So I resigned from my post and.Then I got into the GP program.

0:08:10 - (Zewlan): So basically, it was a very long time. It was about 2016 before I got my fellowship, and then I started to work as a GP.

0:08:19 - (Nicole): That's a long road. Wow. That is a heck of a journey to be able to be a doctor. But I must say, as someone who goes to the doctor and trusts in doctors to look after me and my family, I'm quite glad that you have to learn that much in order to look after us all.

0:08:35 - (Zewlan): Thanks for saying that.

0:08:37 - (Nicole): Well, it means a lot, doesn't it?

0:08:39 - (Nicole): Ramona, are you looking at what mum's done and all that study and training and learning on the job and going, that's what I want to do?

0:08:49 - (Ramona): No.

0:08:50 - (Nicole): What is it that you're thinking when you leave school you might want to do?

0:08:54 - (Ramona): Well, I'm not really sure yet, but I think to start off, I want to try and get a law degree and then I can see where I want to go from that.

0:09:05 - (Nicole): You don't have to decide when you're 14. What do you love doing? What are the school subjects that you really enjoy?

0:09:12 - (Ramona): Yeah, well, I like languages, so I'm in French immersion right now, so I enjoy that.

0:09:21 - (Nicole): Hang on a second. French immersion? What does that mean?

0:09:24 - (Ramona): It's basically all my classes were in French, every one of them. Well, all the core subjects, so math, science, humanities, and we had French as well. That was really fun for me. So I can speak French now, but I'm going to France soon, in a few weeks. I'm going for four months on an exchange, so I'm super excited about that. Wait a minute.

0:09:51 - (Nicole): Whoa. That's amazing. Sorry, four months?

0:09:55 - (Ramona): Yeah.

0:09:55 - (Nicole): With a whole other family?

0:09:57 - (Ramona): Yeah.

0:09:57 - (Nicole): Whereabouts in France are you going?

0:09:59 - (Ramona): I'm going to a small town near Bordeaux, so it looks really nice and I'm really excited to go. And I'm going because the start of this year in April, their class came over and stayed with a few students in French immersion. And I'm still friends with the girl who stayed with me, and so I'm just going to go stay with her.

0:10:18 - (Nicole): That is incredible. What an opportunity.

0:10:22 - (Ramona): Yeah, I think so, too.

0:10:24 - (Nicole): Yeah. You can't do a language by yourself. You need to immerse yourself in it. And staying in France for four months will just. Your language skills are just going to explode.

0:10:37 - (Ramona): Yeah, I hope so.

0:10:39 - (Nicole): So you want to do something with that language when you're out in the workforce? Maybe, yeah.

0:10:46 - (Ramona): Well, I do want to learn other languages as well. Want to learn a lot of languages and I want a job that I can travel because I want to see everywhere that I can see. So I want to try and learn Latin even though no one speaks it, but just because if I learn Latin, it will be so much easier to learn other latin based languages. And I just think that that would be so cool because I want to learn Italian as well.

0:11:17 - (Ramona): I wish I could speak every single language, but I can't.

0:11:20 - (Nicole): Well, polyglot in your future, obviously. That's incredible. And I think it's amazing that there are so many jobs for which another language will be really beneficial. When you're older, French is one of the official languages of the Olympics. Brisbane, 2032. You could get a job with that. Interpreting Oz trade, Oz aid, DFAt, all that kind of stuff. Oh, my gosh, that's so exciting. And what about outside of school? What do you love? That's not school stuff.

0:11:50 - (Ramona): Well, I like reading because mum always used to force me to read, but it's okay because I like it there. I like painting and drawing and that sort of stuff. I do a lot of that in my free time.

0:12:06 - (Nicole): So is your plan to illustrate your mum's books and get a job doing that as well?

0:12:11 - (Ramona): Maybe one day I can do that.

0:12:15 - (Nicole): Translate them into all the new languages?

0:12:17 - (Ramona): Yeah, that would be cool.

0:12:19 - (Nicole): That's amazing.

0:12:21 - (Zewlan): My editor, she's like, I always show her my books first and she always has good insights.

0:12:27 - (Ramona): I bet.

0:12:28 - (Nicole): And so being an author as well, how did that come about, Zewlan? Because that's quite different from being a GP who's a surgical assistant. Where did that come from?

0:12:38 - (Zewlan): I think I've just always wanted to write and never really publicly declared it or admitted it, maybe even to myself. I remember when I started my GP program, I did say that one of my goals was to work on my novel, so I did sort of put it out there. That didn't happen much because young kids and stuff. So in 2016, when I did finish my fellowship, I just said, I'm free now. I've done my medical training, and now I can concentrate on this writing caper.

0:13:09 - (Zewlan): So I just enrolled into some courses and followed my interests. My interests have since uni days at my arts degree was in English literature, and I really enjoyed a course in children's literature then, and I really enjoyed my other courses in post-colonial literature. So I followed those interests and did some picture book writing courses and have written them. And they're actually the hardest to get traditionally published because it's so competitive, because everyone thinks they can write a picture book because it's only 500 words, so it's very competitive. So I feel really grateful that I've been published now, and it's given me the confidence to keep working on those, but also to really work on this novel that I've been trying to write for years.

0:13:56 - (Zewlan): I listened to a podcast called so you want to be a writer, which is Australian Writers centre, and you can listen to all those podcasts from the beginning, and you'll get an amazing master's level creative writing degree without paying a cent. But it's just showing that you don't have to do things through formal training. So, yes, it's definitely doable. In this day and age, we can all educate each other in lots of different things.

0:14:23 - (Nicole): Yeah, you've become a GP who does his surgical assisting with robots, but you're also writing children's books, which is extraordinary. And this novel, now, I'm excited that that's coming out. And then the other thing I'll ask you, Ramona, bibliotherapist, is another thing that your mum, my, I think it's latin biblio books. But what is a bibliotherapist, in your understanding?

0:14:47 - (Ramona): Well, I'm pretty sure it's just someone who reads a lot. They probably know a lot of books that can help people get through things in their life, because if you read a book and it's relatable to you, it can help to know that other people have to go through that. It can have tips and stuff of What you can do. So I feel like a bibliotherapist is just someone who recommends books that can help you grow as a person and just books that they think you'll enjoy.

0:15:18 - (Zewlan): I think she's spot on.

0:15:19 - (Nicole): Yeah, that sounds like a great explanation. How did that come about?

0:15:24 - (Zewlan): Well, that was at the same time, and I just was working as a GP registrar and had a patient who kept on coming back to me, and I felt like I wasn't really helping her. She was having trouble in her marriage. And finally I said to her, oh, just listening to your story, I just wonder if you've read this book and it was the Rosie Project by Graham Simpson. And I just said, oh, maybe just like to read that and just see how it goes for you, if anything resonates and come back and let me know and we can chat about it.

0:15:59 - (Zewlan): So about a month later, she came back and she said, oh, I've really enjoyed talking to you, and you've helped me so much just through listening. She said, that all helped me, but I sort of also knew that stuff already. And she said, but honestly, the thing that helped me the most was when you told me that book, because it was like, as Ramona said, it was just really nice to, she said, this patient, it was really nice to read it and to know that I wasn't alone and also to see the light situation of it and sort of step back and see the big mean. It's not the book that I'd recommend. It's a cute rom.com. But I think it is nice for people to have a different perspective on some things.

0:16:40 - (Nicole): Sometimes I think that's the joy of fiction entirely.

0:16:45 - (Zewlan): Yeah, that's right. And I think that we all can easily find self help books that are going to help us. But I think that for people who don't read much, it's harder to find a good fiction book. And it might be the fiction book that you were meant to find, and that will really touch you. That might even actually make you into a reader, but that might actually help you in that time, in that situation.

0:17:10 - (Zewlan): So I just thought, yeah, I'm going to do this. And so I started a little side business, a little private practice in that. And it's hard, though, because it's like a lot of work. So then I just thought, oh, I'll just keep trying to post my books that I read and find helpful, and I'll use the appropriate hashtags that people might be using to search for a book.

0:17:32 - (Nicole): Yeah, it's a pretty magic thing to disappear into a book, but you need someone to often give you that gateway drug of a book that opens up what your path is. Ramona?

0:17:43 - (Ramona): Yeah.

0:17:44 - (Nicole): When you think about going out into the world, are you thinking you're going to go to uni, you're going to get a job? What are your thoughts on that?

0:17:52 - (Ramona): Well, I think when I get back from France, first of all, I'm going to get a job because all my friends have jobs and I have no money, and I need to get a job. I need some experience. But after high school, I want to have a gap year, and so that's also why I need a job. I need to make money for that. And then, so I want to travel around a bit, and then I want.

0:18:18 - (Zewlan): To go to uni, get that law.

0:18:21 - (Nicole): Degree and get your start. I love it. What are you thinking about with the first job, then?

0:18:26 - (Ramona): I want to work in a bookshop. I feel like that would be like a little one. I feel like that would be such a fun job just for a high school job.

0:18:34 - (Nicole): That'd be so fun.

0:18:35 - (Ramona): Cafe or something? Something nice, something with a little bit.

0:18:38 - (Nicole): Of a slower pace. Shula, what was your first job? My first job was at pick of.

0:18:44 - (Zewlan): The crop fruit shop, and it was great. I loved it. My friend got me that job. Back in the day, there were no automated cash registers, so we would put the produce on the weighing thing, and we would then have to put in the price, but we'd have to memorize the price because sometimes you couldn't see. Sometimes they'd have the prices up and you could see them, but people would get a whole week's worth of groceries. So you can't be just, oh, how much is pumpkins?

0:19:13 - (Zewlan): You sort of have to get to memorize it and just have to do all of that and then put it into the cash register. Once you worked out what the price was, it was great. And then some of, like, nectarines and stuff would change every week, so you'd have to update. You'd go around and go, okay, that one's changed. That one's changed. So, yeah, anyway, I love that job. It was really dirty, but you had to pack spuds and stuff as well. And dirty work, wearing a daggy shorts and t shirt.

0:19:39 - (Zewlan): But it was good, honest work, and I liked it.

0:19:43 - (Nicole): I just love the name pick of the crop. That's just brilliant.

0:19:46 - (Ramona): Yeah, well, everyone used to say pick Of the crap anyway.

0:19:53 - (Nicole): That's so mean. When you're thinking about jobs, what do you think makes a good job?

0:20:04 - (Ramona): For me, it would probably be just something that pays well and probably not online, probably in person, because I can't use computers. But I also think that in general, it's just something that has nice people that you can make connections with.

0:20:22 - (Nicole): Yeah. And so your mom, does she like her job?

0:20:27 - (Ramona): I think she does a bit, but I don't think she does all the time. I think she likes being a surgical assistant, but I don't know if she likes being a GP, but she likes being a writer.

0:20:39 - (Nicole): Zewlan, is that the case? A bit of yes, a bit of no.

0:20:42 - (Ramona): Yeah.

0:20:43 - (Nicole): In the same way that everyone has.

0:20:44 - (Ramona): With their jobs, definitely.

0:20:46 - (Zewlan): So there's always good and bad, isn't there? And I think that's for the kids out there thinking about careers. You got to get to know what your bread and butter is with the job, and it's usually not what you think. And you say, I think, nicole, I.

0:21:00 - (Nicole): Really love your podcast.

0:21:01 - (Zewlan): Like, I was so excited when I saw it, because it's something that I've always thought about with our kids and I actually wanted to write a few books interviewing people about their jobs for middle grade readers because we don't talk about it enough. Doing one or two weeks of work experience in year ten I don't think is enough because you've got to start thinking about these things early. I like what you're saying and it's so true that you can change mid career and you can change in your. Answer your question, though. So there's bread and butter stuff and there's good stuff and bad stuff at every job.

0:21:34 - (Zewlan): And I guess what I really loved about being a GP was the connection and talking to people. And that's why I'm always on a high, like after a one, on 140 minutes consult with a patient. But what I hated was the paperwork. And so even just to get people healthcare plans and came out of a great idea, but so much paperwork where it's just a waste of time, I feel you just sit there making these stupid boxes like, oh, yes, I'm going to refer you to the diabetes manager for your diabetes. I'm going to refer you to the podiatrist for foot care.

0:22:10 - (Zewlan): But any graduate, any australian graduate knows all this stuff. Of course that's what you're going to do. You don't need to write it in a box. It really makes me cross. I got sick of it. And that's, I think, what happens with teachers as well. Often they're sending us reports about the.

0:22:26 - (Ramona): Kids, showing us work that they did.

0:22:28 - (Zewlan): And they're sending that at 09:00 p.m. On a Sunday evening. And they've got school age kids of their own that they should be spending their time with anyway. I just worry about all the paperwork and that's that.

0:22:41 - (Nicole): A lot of paperwork. What is the best thing about your role in surgical assisting? What do you love the most about that part of your role?

0:22:50 - (Zewlan): I just love the team that I work with. I like the people, the nurses and doctors. We're just all there to look after the patient and we just have fun and it's great.

0:23:02 - (Nicole): And you drive an hour away from home to be with the people that you work with. So clearly you enjoy that aspect of the job as well.

0:23:10 - (Zewlan): Yeah, it's weird because I've actually got a private hospital here just around the corner that has a robot, so I could be assisting there, but I just have the people that I work with in Brisbane I've been working with for so long. Some of the surgeons are nearing retirement, so I always know when they retire, then I'll go looking for work closer to home, but at the moment, I'm very happy working with them and I.

0:23:32 - (Ramona): Wouldn'T want to leave them in the lurch.

0:23:34 - (Nicole): I think that's one of the things about a job that you don't realize when you first get into the workforce is that the people are really a massive part of what makes it great.

0:23:45 - (Zewlan): That's right.

0:23:46 - (Nicole): So, Ramona, when you go to France, what are you hoping to get out of that experience? Apart from an explosion in your language, I expect.

0:23:54 - (Ramona): I'm really excited to see all the sights. It's known for its locations, and I just am really excited to learn about the culture and eat the food. I don't know. I want to see how the school system is different to the school system here. A few of them thought that the french school system is too tiring and it's too much for students of their age, and I think that could be true. And so I am excited to see it because I think they have to work a lot harder.

0:24:30 - (Ramona): That's good. But if it's a lot harder every single day and for longer hours as well, which I think it is for longer hours, it could potentially be negative. So I'm excited to see what the differences are. And, yeah, I am excited to see the cold weather because obviously on the Gold coast, it doesn't get that cold. Yeah. I was just so excited for everything.

0:24:55 - (Nicole): I'm so excited for you. It's big.

0:24:57 - (Ramona): Yeah, that's how I felt.

0:24:59 - (Zewlan): Nicole? I always wanted to do it at school and we didn't have the money, and so I've sort of always been talking to Ramona about doing it and sort of fell in our lap to organize it with people we knew.

0:25:11 - (Ramona): My class is actually coming over while I'm there, and so they're coming over to stay with the french kids, but they're only staying for three weeks and mum didn't want me to stay for that short of time. So I'm actually coming home with the australian kids, which is so exciting because I like my class a lot. We're really close and it'll be so fun to come back with them and see Paris and stuff with them, which I'm going to do.

0:25:34 - (Nicole): I think you've got a bit of a travel bug in you, don't you, Ramona?

0:25:38 - (Ramona): Yeah, definitely.

0:25:39 - (Nicole): Such an extraordinary thing to be able to see a different culture and get involved in how that actually works for another country, isn't it? It's a real privilege to be able to find that out.

0:25:49 - (Zewlan): Yeah, that's right.

0:25:50 - (Nicole): Ramona, tell me about your mum's books.

0:25:53 - (Ramona): Well, the first book that she has is called nothing alike. I really like it. It's about her experiences being subject to microaggressions. It's about being asian and how it can often have people get confused with you and other people. And it's the story based off that, and it's about my little brother, and I really like it. And then the second book she has is called the buildup. And it's about a little boy who live in the desert.

0:26:26 - (Ramona): Well, the outback. He's never seen rain, and then it starts to rain. And I think it was based off her because she used to live in beau desert. But I really like her books and she has a lot that are coming.

0:26:39 - (Nicole): Out, which I am super excited about. And I was really excited to see nothing alike was mentioned in my Brisbane city council little leaflet, and it was talking about great books for kids, and nothing alike was in there. And I already had scheduled to interview you both, and I just thought, oh, my goodness. The universe is just bringing Zewlan to me all the time.

0:26:56 - (Ramona): It's great. I love that. Yeah. Thank you so much. You were the first person to notice it, and I was like, oh, my God.

0:27:04 - (Nicole): Well, obviously the librarians have noticed it, too. So for everybody out there, Zewlan Moor's book is called nothing alike. It's out there now. The buildup is out, and you should definitely go and grab them. But I wanted to ask you both one last thing. If you have a day where you just don't have to do anything, there's no schoolwork, there's no work work. There's just chilling. Whatever you want to choose to do.

0:27:26 - (Nicole): Ramona, what would you choose to do with that day?

0:27:28 - (Ramona): Probably just go to the beach, just with my friends and get ice cream or something. And that would be it.

0:27:37 - (Nicole): Probably hanging with friends at the beach with ice cream. Sounds like a pretty great day. What about you, Shawn?

0:27:43 - (Zewlan): Read and maybe do a bit of writing. Maybe do a jigsaw, but probably not just read.

0:27:50 - (Nicole): And so what is on your bedside table right now, Zewlan?

0:27:54 - (Ramona): Oh, some political works.

0:27:58 - (Zewlan): A collection of essays called after Zionism, edited by Anthony Lloyd.

0:28:04 - (Ramona): I'm also reading in fiction.

0:28:07 - (Zewlan): It's a verse novel, Sunshine on Vinegar street by Karen Comer. She's very talented writer. She's got two books out this year, and they're her debut books, but they're both wonderful. Set in Melbourne.

0:28:18 - (Nicole): Fabulous. What about you? What are you reading at the moment, Ramona?

0:28:21 - (Ramona): I'm actually reading a book about girl who goes on exchange to France. So it's quite relevant. And it's called, this one's ours. Kate O'Donnell. It's really good. I'm enjoying it and it's relatable for me.

0:28:37 - (Nicole): You're being your own bibliotherapist.

0:28:39 - (Zewlan): Yeah, I recommended it. I'm her bibliotherapist.

0:28:44 - (Nicole): Of course. Of course. What was I thinking? I love it. Zewlan and Ramona, thank you so very much for being part of bring your kid to work. I hope it's been fun. I've really loved our conversation. Thank you.

0:28:59 - (Ramona): Thank you. It's been a complete joy. Yeah, thank you.

0:29:03 - (Zewlan): I love doing stuff with this one.

0:29:06 - (Nicole): Yeah, it's pretty magic, isn't it? One of the nicest bit of feedback that I got from a guest on bring your kid to work was that it was a really lovely thing to build a memory with what was their grandchild that they would have forever. So, yeah, it's a nice thing to do together. So thank you both for being on bring your kid to work.

0:29:22 - (Ramona): Thank you. Thank you.

0:29:24 - (Nicole): Enjoy your exchange, Ramona. I can't wait to hear about that. I'll have to check in with you when you come back.

0:29:29 - (Ramona): Thank you.

0:29:30 - (Nicole): Wow. That was amazing. I had no idea that a bibliotherapist was a thing. I didn't know that you could combine therapy with books and make that something that people can help themselves with. Cannot believe that someone can use robots that they put their hands in to make sure that men are as healthy as they can be after prostate cancer surgery. And that you combine all that with being a skin cancer diagnostician. Holy guacamole. Putting all that together as a portfolio of career that lights a fire in you and makes you feel like you're combining all the things that are a part of you is pretty cool.

0:30:07 - (Nicole): The fact that it takes that long for a GP to be trained and qualified is extraordinarily difficult for people to commit their lives to. And the fact that Zewlan can use that, but also can use her love of writing and her experiences to write incredible children's books, it just blows my mind. And oh, my goodness, Ramona. Wow. The whole idea of going to a completely different country, living with a different family, learning in a different language and just throwing yourself in there, what an incredible experience she's going to have. So I can't wait to hear about that. I'd love to hear from other people who have been on exchange and what that meant for them in their lives.

0:30:51 - (Nicole): It's a pretty remarkable experience if you can get into that kind of thing. If languages are your thing. Thank you to all those gps out there who do all the hard work to get qualified to be a GP who can look after all of our health. We appreciate you. If you want to know more about the roles that Zewlan has, I will pop things in our Facebook page. Just pop on to bring your kid to work, the podcast on Facebook, bring your kid to work on TikTok or on Instagram.

0:31:18 - (Nicole): And of course there's the bring your kid to work conversations group. So join onto there and we can have a good chat about all of these things. I just love meeting all of the listeners and having a chat to you all. So until next time, bye.

0:31:32 - (Nicole): Bring your kid to work was recorded in mean on the lands of the Jaggera and Turable, people who have been sharing their stories for more than 60,000 years. Thanks for listening to another episode of bring your kid to work. If you haven't already, make sure you give us a review on your podcast player of choice. It helps other people find the show and follow bring your kid to work and subscribe wherever you're listening now and send your favorite episode to a friend.

0:31:58 - (Nicole): These stories are too good to keep to ourselves. And don't forget to follow us on Instagram and TikTok at bring your kid to work and on Facebook at bring your kid to work the podcast and did you know you can join the conversation? Join bring your kid to work career conversations community on Facebook for great career tips and conversations about the journey of work, workplace culture, and parenting while working.

0:32:21 - (Nicole): We're always looking for inspiring guests to be a part of our show. If you have a fab idea for a guest, drop us a line at admin@bringyourkidowork.com au or dm us through the socials. We would love to hear from you. Thanks again for listening. Bring your kid to work is a Lioness media production. This episode was produced and edited by me Nicole Lessio. Our music is composed by Rikkuo with graphics and design by Anastasia Mahkuka.

0:32:49 - (Nicole): Follow bring your kid to work on your podcast player and all the socials and visit bringyourkidowork.com to see our blog transcripts from our episodes and to sign up to our newsletter for the latest updates. Talk to you soon.