Episode Two - The Talent Acquisition Manager

Listen on

Transcript

0:00:23 - (Nicole): It's time to bring your kid to work. Work it's the family podcast that explores the world of work through the eyes of parents and their kids. Each week, we interview one parent and their child to chat about what they do for work, what they like, what they don't like and how they got there in the first place. Let's find out who we're talking to today.

Our very special guests today are Jane and her daughter, Alex.

Jane Arden's determination matching the right person to the right job are clear for all who hear her speak about it.

Jane has a career history in finding the right people for the right jobs. But her real passion is for developing people and their potential. Her role means she gets to spend every day influencing leaders, showing people how best to align their values and skills, and placing them in positions they enjoy getting up and coming to work for. With a career that spans two continents and many different industries, she is currently Talent Acquisition Manager for Multicap and she delights in recruiting great candidates to empower people with disabilities to live their best lives.

Her daughter Alex shares her passion for making the world better, and you'll hear all about her plans to ensure animals get treated with the dignity and compassion she clearly displays. I think you're going to love this conversation as much as I did. Let's get on with the show.

0:01:39 - (Nicole): Hello, and welcome to Bring Your Kid To Work. Today's episode is called the Talent Acquisition Manager. And we have two very special guests today. I would like our first special guest to introduce herself. What is your name, young lady?

0:01:55 - (Alex): Hi, I'm Alexandria.

0:01:56 - (Nicole): And Alexandria, do you like being called Alexandria or do you like being called Alex?

0:02:01 - (Alex): I'll be called Alex.

0:02:02 - (Nicole): Excellent. Alex, how old are you?

0:02:04 - (Alex): I'm 10. Yeah.

0:02:06 - (Nicole): So that means you're in grade 27?

0:02:09 - (Alex): Five.

0:02:10 - (Nicole): Grade five, yeah. Okay, good. Glad we cleared that up. Now, grade five, what is the most fun thing you do at school in grade five?

0:02:17 - (Alex): Science, because we're learning about space last term, and this term we're doing light.

0:02:27 - (Nicole): Ooh, yeah. They sound like really good, fun things.

0:02:29 - (Alex): Yeah, they are.

0:02:30 - (Nicole): All right, I'm going to talk to this special person. Who is this special person that you brought with you?

0:02:35 - (Alex): Oh, she's my mum.

0:02:36 - (Nicole): What's your mum's name?

0:02:38 - (Alex): Jane Arden.

0:02:39 - (Nicole): And, Jane, welcome.

0:02:41 - (Jane): Thank you.

0:02:42 - (Nicole): You are a talent acquisition manager?

0:02:45 - (Jane): Sounds so fancy.

0:02:46 - (Nicole): It does sound fancy. What does it mean, Alex?

0:02:48 - (Alex): She gets to have parties with donuts.

0:02:54 - (Nicole): Is that true, Jane? Do you get to have parties with donuts?

0:02:56 - (Jane): It is in fact, mostly true. We do get to hang out as a team and there's usually quite a lot of baking and some cakes every week, for a fact.

0:03:07 - (Nicole): Every week? Wow.

0:03:07 - (Jane): Sometimes more often.

0:03:09 - (Nicole): Okay, that sounds excellent, but I don't think that's what they pay you to do, though.

0:03:14 - (Jane): Correct.

0:03:14 - (Nicole): So what do you go to work to actually do that they are paying you to do?

0:03:21 - (Jane): Okay, so I get the opportunity to fill all of the vacancies at my company. Every time that somebody say retires or resigns, they come to me and my team and say, find us another, please, Jane. And every time we meet people, we're thinking to ourselves, me and the team, would this person be someone we'd really like to work with. And would they be a good addition? I mean, A, could they do their job? Yeah. But B, would they be the right sort of person who'd stay with the company for years and years and years? So me and the team get to fill all the vacancies.

0:03:59 - (Nicole): So a vacancy is when someone leaves the job or when someone retires, and you get to fill that job with a new person?

0:04:05 - (Jane): A newbie

0:04:08 - (Nicole): Wow. Alex, what does your mum do all day, then? If she's doing that, what do you think that means, day to day?

0:04:16 - (Alex): Well, basically, she always comes home with some sort of treat, so I always just think she just parties.

0:04:24 - (Nicole): But if you're trying to fill a job, trying to find the right person for the job, what do you have to do to work out if they're the right person? Do you think.

0:04:34 - (Alex): Bribe them.

0:04:37 - (Jane): Feels like that. Actually, she's just not far wrong.

0:04:42 - (Nicole): Jane, what do you have to do to figure out if they're the right person?

0:04:46 - (Jane): So my team do most of the hard work, right, and they are going to look at the person's experience and see what jobs they've done before and are they similar to the jobs that we want them to do? And then we ask them lots of questions, and that might be over the phone, or it might be asking them to come on in and meet us and sit down and have a job interview. And then we'll ask them lots of questions and let them ask us lots of questions.

And then together we'll decide, is this a job that they would really like to do, and do they really want it, and do we really want them? And then there's also the conversation about money. So we talk a lot about what salary can we offer them and what salary are they looking for. Sometimes we think that we found the amazing person and we just want them, want them, want them so bad to start in our team, but they're like, not for that money.

And we go oh, there's so many other wonderful things about this job. Like, surely you would want free parking or it's close to home, or you know that you are going to know that you're making a real difference in the lives of the people that we support. Aren't they great? Added bonuses that you'd want in your job and the right sort of person will go, actually, I want to know that I can make a difference every single day, and your company is doing that, so I want to be part of your company. And then we know that we found the right person.

0:06:06 - (Nicole): That sounds like a hard thing, trying to fit each of the puzzle pieces into the right spot on the puzzle.

0:06:12 - (Jane): Lots of different puzzle pieces. You're right.

0:06:14 - (Alex): Yeah.

0:06:14 - (Nicole): So what does Mum's company do?

0:06:17 - (Alex): I think she says that it's something to do with disabled people, but I'm not 100% sure.

0:06:24 - (Nicole): So, support, you said before, Jane, is that true? Supporting people with disabilities.

0:06:28 - (Jane): So the company is called Multicap and they offer amazing support to people with disabilities, and that could be intellectual disabilities or physical or mental ill health. And these people need more help than the three of us do to live full lives. So they might need someone to push their wheelchair or to take them to see the GP because they can't drive. Or they might need someone to actually help them cut up their breakfast and feed it to them.

Or they might need someone to help them get their wheelchair into the shower and out again. So we find our support workers who are just compassionate and wonderful, giving, caring, loving people who support our customers. We call them people with disabilities to do that and to live full and independent lives wherever possible.

0:07:25 - (Nicole): That sounds like it really is important. Is that something you'd want to do when you're older, Alex?

0:07:29 - (Alex): No, I'd rather work on a farm.

0:07:31 - (Nicole): Work on a farm? What kind of things on a farm would you like to do?

0:07:35 - (Alex): Well, instead of helping people, I'd help animals. So, like big animals. Like horses to cows and maybe sheep or goats.

0:07:47 - (Nicole): Wow. Okay. Because I am recording this in your house and I noticed on your door you have this beautiful horse poster.

0:07:55 - (Alex): Yes.

0:07:56 - (Nicole): And there are horses all over your bedroom.

0:07:58 - (Nicole): Yes.

0:07:59 - (Nicole): I think you might like horses.

0:08:01 - (Alex): Yes, that is 100% correct.

0:08:04 - (Nicole): What do you love about horses?

0:08:06 - (Alex): Well, I love riding them. The feeling of riding them is just magical. But I also just love being around them. The smell of them is quite nice and they're really cute and fluffy and just affectionate. Well, most of them are, yeah.

0:08:22 - (Jane): You'll notice that she's got a walloping bruise on one hand where a horse bit her the other day. But we know why the horse bit her. It wasn't an angry horse.

0:08:30 - (Alex): It was just that the saddle pinched its fur and then it just didn't like that.

0:08:36 - (Nicole): No, I wouldn't like that either. I thought maybe you were holding a carrot and you didn't give it over quick enough.

0:08:42 - (Alex): That sometimes happens.

0:08:45 - (Nicole): So when you say about working on a farm and helping animals, what kind of job is that?

0:08:51 - (Alex): Well, if, say, like, a horse needed to have help giving birth, I'd want to do that, but I'd also want to give it help. Maybe not permanently, but if it hurt its leg, then I want to be there.

0:09:06 - (Nicole): Okay. As a vet, is that the kind of thing ?

0:09:06 - (Jane):We do know our next door neighbour? See, I'm pointing that direction? Yes. They just set up a new vet clinic, like, two weeks ago.

0:09:18 - (Nicole): Do I see a part time job in your future?

0:09:20 - (Alex): I might work there, but then I'd probably want to go out somewhere southern Queensland and western southern that direction. Somewhere in Queensland and have a farm there.

0:09:34 - (Nicole): Wow. So do you want to own your own farm?

0:09:36 - (Alex): Yeah.

0:09:38 - (Jane): Saving money now.

0:09:39 - (Nicole): Yeah.

0:09:40 - (Jane): So, Alex, I think I'm rewording what you say, but would much prefer to be out in the country somewhere.

0:09:47 - (Alex): Yeah.

0:09:48 - (Jane): You do not want to have neighbours right next door. No. You want to have oodles of room for the horses to run where you are happy. That's your happy place?

0:09:57 - (Alex): Yeah.

0:09:57 - (Nicole): Oh, wow. So you said you love the smell and you love the riding. And what is it that feels so good about being on a horse? Because you know what? I've never ridden a horse Alex.

0:10:07 - (Alex): Well, I think when you say when I'm jumping on a horse and when you reach your goal, that's always a good feeling. When you do something good, you start jumping at this height or you start cantering at the speed, it's always a good feeling.

0:10:24 - (Nicole): So is being on a farm something you've always thought you wanted to do or is this a new thing?

0:10:31 - (Alex): Well, when I was in prep, I liked sharks. And then my sister started going to tap, and we always passed these two horses called Beauty and Dancer. And then we started stopping there, patting them. And then one day we met the owner and he said, Would you like a ride? And I said, yes, please. And then we've just sort of gone there ever since. Now I'm grade five and it's been yeah, really good. And now we do pony club.

0:10:58 - (Nicole): Wow. I love that. You saw them on the side of the road and you went, that's something I want to get involved in.

0:11:04 - (Alex): Yeah.

0:11:05 - (Jane): Can we drive down Thynne road so that we can see Dancer and Beauty?

0:11:09 - (Alex): Yeah.

0:11:09 - (Nicole): Oh, that's amazing. Did you want to be on a farm when you were little, Jane?

0:11:13 - (Jane): No, I don't think so.

0:11:14 - (Nicole): What did you want to do when you were young?

0:11:16 - (Jane): Well, I really didn't know. I was one of those people who just did not know. I mean, I liked animals, so people said maybe I should be a vet like, okay, if it makes you happy then I'll say, I want to be a vet. And I loved French in senior school. And so then I decided I'd like to be an interpreter. And I picked up Spanish and studied French and Spanish as my first degree. And I thought, I will be an interpreter, a simultaneous interpreter at the United Nations.

0:11:50 - (Nicole): What's that? Hang on, before we go on, a simultaneous interpreter.

0:11:53 - (Jane): Interpreter is the person who you normally go into your own language. So I might be listening to Spanish and then listening into that from that language into English. All of the politicians, for example, who didn't speak Spanish, they would just listen to me and I would give them an accurate translation of what the pollies were saying.

0:12:14 - (Nicole): So that was your first degree, you're saying?

0:12:17 - (Jane): Yeah, so I did arts, first of all, because everyone said, keep your options open. I'm thinking, I don't even know what I want to do, but let's do French because it's fun. But I knew that I didn't want to be a teacher because I didn't know back then how much I was going to love kids. But I didn't think that I wanted to be a teacher. I didn't really know what I wanted. So anyway, French and Spanish, did a little bit of German, did a little bit of international politics and relations and that was cool. But that doesn't lead to a job, does it? All very well to spend three and a half years having fun and studying something that you love and coming away with a huge hex debt and still not really know what you want to do. So then I did another degree over at QUT and I did Bachelor of Business and I still didn't really know what I wanted to do. But my mate Craig, who is one know the world's really wonderful people, said to me, Jane, you'd be good in HR or PR?

I was like, crikey, I've done a whole business degree and I still don't really know what PR is. Sorry, QUT. I didn't really know what PR was, but I thought it was probably selling an unpleasant reality, trying to put a good spin on things. So I didn't think that would be fun. And then he said, but what about HR? And I went, oh yeah, that's all people, right?

0:13:36 - (Nicole): So what is HR? What does that stand for?

0:13:38 - (Jane): Well, human resources is I guess it's kind of keeping people happy while they're at work. Basically, it's making sure that they're paid the correct amount and that they do a great job and they have all everything necessary to them to be able to do a great job. So I got a job in a recruitment agency and I thought that recruitment was HR, where now I look back and I go, oh dear, Jane, what did that business degree actually teach you?

It turns out that recruitment is just a tiny bit of HR, but it is the hands down most fun bit of human resources because it's all of the finding the right job for the person. And then you get to make this amazing phone call that is every bit as good now as it was 25 years ago, where you get to say, hey, congratulations, we want to offer you the job and this is the money and what date would you like to start? And they all go, Yay, I got the job. And it's always a wonderful, wonderful conversation.

0:14:45 - (Nicole): That's so fun.

0:14:47 - (Alex): Yeah.

0:14:47 - (Jane): And also recruitment is all about asking people questions. So I get to be really nosy and I think it's quite normal to say things like, why did you leave that role? And what was it that you weren't enjoying in that position? And then, what makes you think that this job would be more fun? And I get to talk about people's salaries all the time, which I think now is quite normal, but I realise that it's not normal for everyone. But I like to ask lots of questions and then listen to the answers.

0:15:17 - (Nicole): That does sound fun. Clearly I like to ask lots of questions and listen to the answers too. So maybe that's where I went wrong. I should have gone into recruitment.

0:15:28 - (Jane): You'd be amazing in recruitment. So I decided pretty early on that I wanted to be in internal recruitment, which is when you're in one organisation and you're filling all of the vacancies. And then you get to be there when they start on day one, and you get to say welcome, and you get to make sure that they settle in well and that they know everything that they need to do the job really well. And then as they progress through their career, you get to watch them and brings out all my mother and instincts. It's like my little babies, look how they're growing. Yeah, that's like my grads when I recruited the graduates. And then I'd see them, they'd finish their graduate program and get permanent jobs in their area of expertise and I'd be so proud of them.

0:16:15 - (Nicole): That sounds so beautiful. That sounds like a good job for you. Alex, what do you think makes a good job?

0:16:23 - (Alex): I think good jobs just aren't boring jobs if it's not like sitting in office all day and typing stuff. It would be like you get to go outside, you get to play, you might get to interact with other people or animals, you might get to investigate stuff. Just not be in an office, basically.

0:16:43 - (Jane): But I'm in an office most of the day and then I can either walk down the corridor to see people or sometimes it's easier just to pick up the phone and call them or teams them so I can see their face on my screen, but I'm still sat at my computer.

0:16:58 - (Nicole): That doesn't sound like the kind of job that Alex wants though. Does it?

0:17:00 - (Jane): No.

0:17:02 - (Nicole): And I think that's really interesting because you guys come from the same family and you want completely different things out of the jobs that you do.

0:17:11 - (Alex): Like, same with my sister. She's completely different and we're all different, our whole family.

0:17:19 - (Nicole): Yeah, I love that. Which is great, because all the jobs are different, right?

0:17:23 - (Alex): Yeah.

0:17:24 - (Nicole): Jane, what did your parents do? Did you think, I want to do what they do when I grow?

0:17:29 - (Jane): Oh, man. Well, what a good question. So, dad was a doctor in private practice and his dad was a doctor, and I think I made decision pretty early. I didn't want to be a doctor just because they already were. It was like that one's taken. Mum had a PhD in small particle physics. Wow. She won a scholarship to the University of Bristol to do her PhD, and then she worked for Encyclopedia Britannica in London before I was born, had a phenomenal career in physics and did some work with CERN, which is where they spin tiny particles underneath the ground. It's underground in France.

0:18:12 - (Nicole): Wow.

0:18:13 - (Jane): She did some early work on that and then met dad. It was 1969. She came back to Brisbane, got married, and the Queensland Government under, I think it was Sir Joh, said, no. No married women may work in education or in research. And she went, well, what am I meant to do in Brisbane? So she had children and I think felt very unfulfilled. But she worked in libraries and she loved researching things.

So there was a part of her job as a librarian that students at the university could come in and ask her anything. If they couldn't find it, she would research it herself and find it for them. And she was very tenacious until she got the right answer. So Mum ended up heading up the university physical sciences and engineering library at UQ, and that was the first job that actually used her PhD since she'd been in Brisbane, since 1970.

0:19:11 - (Nicole): Wow. It sounds really interesting to me that the way you talk about your mum and how inquisitive she was and how curious she was and how tenacious she was about finding the right thing. It's got real parallels with what you do, because you're very curious about the people you're interviewing and about the jobs that you're trying to fill, and you're very determined to match the right people with the right job. So it sounds very much like you're very much like your mama.

0:19:40 - (Jane): Funny you should say that. She didn't really like people, though. I don't think she didn't feel particularly comfortable with people. I mean, they were fine, but for me they're amazing. I'm constantly saying, Aren't people interesting? Right. And every day at work, I'm like, wow, what an interesting decision that person made.

Aren't people amazing? Whereas Mum was, like, quite happy just with my science, with my research and my book.

0:20:09 - (Nicole): Yes, fair enough. And Alex is quite happy with her animals. Alex, when you're going into school, you love science. You're telling us that already. What are the other things apart from horses outside in the world that you love?

0:20:27 - (Alex): Well, I sort of want everything to be equal, like, say, the Orangutans. I don't find it fair how they're like, obviously people came second, animals are here and their habitat is going. I also don't like how we should be having a vote about if people with indigenous heritage should be in politics. I don't think that's very fair. I think that should have happened, like, ages ago.

0:20:58 - (Nicole): So you listen to the news by the sounds of things?

0:21:00 - (Alex): Only sometimes, because I wake up very early and the news starts at 07:00 and ends at 730, so sometimes I only get to watch till 715 and that's all.

0:21:10 - (Nicole): You wake up very early? That is the complete opposite to me, Alex. And that's why you want to be working with animals and I do not. Because they wake up early, don't they?

0:21:19 - (Alex): Yeah, exactly.

0:21:21 - (Nicole): What about work makes you worry? Are there any worries you have about getting a job when you get big?

0:21:27 - (Alex): No, I'm sort of like, cool, I'm just going to buy somewhere out in the country. I'm just going to have a farm and just chill, and then I might have some people help me and then when I die, I'll just give it to some other person to look after.

0:21:45 - (Jane): Do you remember we went to that Arab horse stud farm and they were breeding Arab horses?

0:21:51 - (Alex): Yeah.

0:21:52 - (Jane): Is that the sort of thing that you envisage doing?

0:21:54 - (Alex): Not really breeding. Just like sort of like a rescue, but not a rescue. Just having my horses and then rescuing other animals if they need it. Yeah.

0:22:06 - (Jane): What about wildlife? Would you consider, like, hurt koalas?

0:22:10 - (Alex): Yeah. And kangaroos.

0:22:12 - (Nicole): Wow. This is sounding like very important work Alex. Can I say, because you want to have a farm…

0:22:19 - (Alex): Yeah.

0:22:20 - (Nicole): That's going to cost some money.

0:22:21 - (Alex): It is.

0:22:22 - (Nicole): So you're probably going to have to have a job first to start to earn money. What do you think your first job might be?

0:22:28 - (Alex): Well, my first job is before I get a car. We have a coffee shop down the road, so I might want to work there. And then once I get a car, start driving. Then I might want to go to places where I might get more money and I might work at our neighbour's vet called Hey Bud. So I might want to work there. Not as a surgeon or anything, just maybe front desk like that. And then once I get very older, then I might want to be an instructor at my pony club. And then once I have enough money and I'm more independent, I'm over, like, 21 or something, I have my own property, then I'll start getting in horses and stuff.

0:23:02 - (Nicole): I love that you've got a whole plan. This is fantastic.

0:23:05 - (Jane): And it's her parents holding her back at the moment because we say you're not allowed a horse until you can drive there every morning to feed it.

0:23:12 - (Nicole): Yeah, that sounds fair though. It does sound fair. Jane, what was your first job?

0:23:16 - (Jane): Oh, way back there was a restaurant chain called Sizzler and I was on the salad bar. I was at Sizzler Toowong when I was in grade eleven.

0:23:27 - (Nicole): Amazing.

0:23:28 - (Jane): And it's quite funny. Can I tell you a story?

0:23:30 - (Nicole): Please.

0:23:30 - (Jane): Later in my early twenties, I was backpacking and I was up in the Lake District in the UK. I went into a very fancy restaurant hotel in the Lake District and it was silver service sort of restaurant and they said, have you ever done silver service before? And I said, oh, yes, I worked at Sizzler Toowong. This was, thank God, in the days before internet and they couldn't just google and find that Sizzler was steak and salad and so I got the job, ridiculously. And then had to learn how to do silver service and I practiced with tongs and ice cubes.

0:24:04 - (Nicole): Oh my goodness. So you faked it till you made it?

0:24:08 - (Jane): Faked it. I would not recommend lying at a job interview, ever. No, not the right thing to do.

0:24:13 - (Nicole): Definitely not. Because eventually someone's going to find out that you don't know what you're doing.

0:24:18 - (Jane): I think that was on day one, but they kept me.

0:24:22 - (Nicole): What's the worst job you've ever done?

0:24:24 - (Jane): I'm stumped, I'm absolutely stumped. It might have been Sizzler because of the smell, so working with food, you're always going to smell of food. Yeah, it was late night 11:00 for me. Yeah, that's late. My bedtime, you know me - so that might have been my worst. Yeah, I loved, loved, loved working in department store when I was at uni because that was just it was all talking to people and helping people find the right things.

0:24:48 - (Nicole): Wow.

0:24:49 - (Jane): Loved that. Every single place I've worked, I've loved the people and the team that I've been in. So probably the worst job for me would simply have been one of the jobs where I didn't really like the people I was with or that I wasn't surrounded by a lot of people.

0:25:04 - (Nicole): Yeah, your mum's a people person, isn't she?

0:25:06 - (Alex): Yeah, she definitely is.

0:25:08 - (Nicole): Yeah, for sure. And I think that's really part of a good job as well is you need to enjoy the people or the animals that you're around because you're there for a lot of the time and so it's really important that you find the people that you work well with and that you enjoy being with. Kind of like your family.

0:25:27 - (Jane): Like your family, right? Yeah, they are.

0:25:30 - (Nicole): They're like your work family.

0:25:31 - (Jane): And every Monday morning I come into the team and even if I'm on the drive into work on a Monday morning, I'm feeling a bit like, oh, the weekend's over. The minute I see my team, I'm just so happy to see them. And sometimes there's things to celebrate and sometimes it's just, let's get into work. But it's all so amazing to see my wonderful people.

0:25:52 - (Nicole): Yeah, that makes all the difference, I think. Is there anything that I didn't ask you about work that I should have asked you, Alex?

0:26:01 - (Alex): No.

0:26:02 - (Nicole): You think I've covered it?

0:26:03 - (Alex): Yeah.

0:26:04 - (Nicole): Choosing at the end to go to university or not go to university have you decided?

0:26:09 - (Alex): Yes, I want to go to university.

0:26:11 - (Nicole): Yeah.

0:26:16 - (Alex): Q-U-T. Yeah, that one or UQ, the one that's not in the city.

0:26:23 - (Jane): You'd prefer UQ. Yeah, I think do you prefer that one? Because that's where we go to have picnics by the lake yeah.

0:26:28 - (Alex): And the ducks are there.

0:26:29 - (Nicole): That's a great way to choose a uni! It's as valid a reason as any other. I love it

0:26:33 - (Alex): And I also know what I want to do there. I want to do astronomy, meteorology, physics, maths and science.

0:26:41 - (Nicole): That sounds incredible.

0:26:43 - (Jane): My mum was fascinated by the weather yeah. And you know that thing that I do with my hand and I hold my thumb up and curl my fingers around anticlockwise for a high pressure, you know, when I'm watching the weather and I hold my hand like that? That's exactly what my mum used to do to work out what direction the winds are travelling and therefore you can work out if they're going to be wet winds or dry winds yeah. So you might be following my mum's footsteps.

0:27:12 - (Nicole): Is there anything I didn't ask you about jobs and work and life, Jane, that I should have asked you? As someone who knows about recruitment and knows about interviews and things like that, what advice would you give people about going for jobs?

0:27:26 - (Jane): The first piece of advice is for anyone who's preparing for a job interview. Absolutely. Research your organisation. Know what they do and what they're proud of doing and why you would like to be in that organisation. I recently interviewed a young graduate who probably could have done the job. He didn't have any experience, which was already a bit of a setback because he was 21, 22 ish. He should have had some experience by that age, but I was prepared to overlook that. But when I said, what do you know about our organisation? He went, oh, I don't know. And I went, well, what did you Google? And he said, I didn't get a chance to do that and I didn't give him the job because I thought, if you can't even be bothered to Google what we do, how would you know if you're going to be happy here? So I didn't have a better candidate at that stage, but I let him go and said, thank you, but not right for. This one and it turned out we did find a better candidate afterwards. But that was my first piece of advice, is just to find out all about the organisation.

0:28:24 - (Jane): Advice more generally is don't stress if you don't know what you want to do, because so many people don't know what they want to do. And you can be 40 and only just find out, and chances are you're going to have multiple careers anyway. Chances are you might start off as a teacher, for example, and then you might go into, I don't know, corporate communication or marketing, and then you might branch out and do your own pod. Does that sound like anyone we know?

0:28:50 - (Nicole): It does sound familiar.

0:28:52 - (Jane): So you're going to do lots of things and so do not stress if you don't know what that thing is.

0:28:59 - (Nicole): I think that is excellent advice to leave it on. I want to say thank you very much to Alex and to Jane for spending the morning with me and having a wonderful chat about work and jobs and horses. Thank you, Alex.

0:29:11 - (Alex): You're welcome.

0:29:12 - (Nicole): Thank you, Jane.

0:29:12 - (Jane): It is our absolute pleasure.

0:29:14 - (Nicole): Next week we're going to be talking to someone about a different job and we look forward to having that chat then. But for now, thank you, Jane. Thank you, Alex.

0:29:21 - (Alex): You're very welcome.

0:29:22 - (Nicole): Bye, everyone.

0:29:23 - (Jane): Cheerio.

0:29:23 - (Alex): Bye.