Episode Nine - The Chief Digital Officer

0:00:00 - (Nicole): Bring Your Kid to Work is being recorded in Meeanjin and we acknowledge and pay our respects to the Yuggera and Turrbl people as the traditional custodians of the land and waters on which we learn, work and play. And we extend our respect to all Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander peoples.

0:00:15 - (Nicole): It's time to Bring Your Kid To Work. Hey, everyone, it's time to Bring Your Kid To Work.

It's the family podcast that explores the world of work through the eyes, parents and their kids. Each week, we interview one parent and their child to chat about what they do for work, what they like, what they don't like and how they got there in the first place.

Let's find out who we're talking to today.

0:00:39 - (Nicole): It's our very first Bring Your Grandkid to Work episode. Our guests today are Tracy and her grandson Jaxon. Tracy Whitelaw is the co founder and CEO of Haven XR. A whole new level of virtual reality. It's experience reality. It's immersive interactive, cinematic ugh. You're going to hear more about that on this episode. It's very impressive, but her day job is as the Chief Digital Officer at The Local Government Association of Queensland. She loves solving problems with technology and she does so for communities around Queensland working with her fantastic team and the teams of the local governments they work with. She's even been recognised for her awesome work by being named the Women in Digital 2021 Executive of the Year. Her grandson Jaxon is one of her biggest fans. He is chief tester for Haven XR and thinks his Nonna's job is pretty cool.

This is a great conversation that you're just going to love. Let's get on with the show.

0:01:41 - (Nicole): Welcome to Bring Your Kid To Work. This is a very special episode because it is our first Bring Your Grandkid to Work. Yay. Very excited to have our first grandparent and grandchild on. Bring your kid to work. And this episode is called the Chief Digital Officer. So I want to meet our guests. We'll start with our youngest guest. Could you introduce yourself, please?

0:02:07 - (Jaxon): Hello, I'm Jaxon.

0:02:09 - (Nicole): Hi, Jaxon. How old are you?

0:02:11 - (Jaxon): I am ten.

0:02:13 - (Nicole): You're ten? So depending on when you were born, you're either in grade four or grade five.

0:02:19 - (Jaxon): I am in grade five.

0:02:22 - (Nicole): Yes. That's excellent. Jaxon, who did you bring with you today on Bring Your Kid to Work?

0:02:30 - (Jaxon): I rang my Nonna, which means grandma in Italian.

0:02:36 - (Nicole): Yes, it does. I have one of those myself. Cool. And your Nonna, what is your Nonna's name?

0:02:42 - (Jaxon): Her name is Tracy.

0:02:45 - (Nicole): And Jaxon, do you know what your Nonna does for a job?

0:02:50 - (Jaxon): IT? So is it kind of yeah, it's sort of like IT - cooler than IT I think

0:03:02 - (Nicole): How about we ask her? Tracy, a chief digital officer. What does that mean?

0:03:08 - (Tracy): Look, I think it means spending most of your day building relationships and putting out fires. But especially it means that I'm in charge of things like digital data innovation, It, and my job is basically to manage teams that deliver amazing things that we can put out into the world and hopefully make the world a better place. That's how I like to think of it.

0:03:38 - (Nicole): Wow. Okay, so managing teams. So you deal with lots of people. You work with people. All mm hmm. And computers. Do you like computers with the It part of it? You like that kind of thing?

0:03:51 - (Tracy): I'm a complete nerd, as Jaxon also knows. He's a bit of a nerd, too, which is adorable. So, yes, I love computers and technology and gadgets and gaming and all of those things. And I think that's probably why Jaxon loves hanging out here so much. Is it part of it, yeah.

0:04:11 - (Nicole): What are the fun things, Jaxon, that happen at Nonna’s house?

0:04:16 - (Jaxon): Oh, we do do lots of playing and going to fun places.

0:04:21 - (Nicole): Yeah.

0:04:23 - (Jaxon): They also have a piano that I like to play on a lot.

0:04:27 - (Nicole): Also good.

0:04:29 - (Jaxon): Yeah. There's VR. Yeah.

0:04:34 - (Tracy): You love VR.

0:04:35 - (Nicole): So for people out in the world who don't know what VR means, what is VR?

0:04:39 - (Jaxon): virtual reality.

0:04:42 - (Nicole): So you get to play games with big goggles on your face and that kind of thing?

0:04:47 - (Jaxon): Yeah. And there's a bunch of different games, some about being animals or simulators of doing things. And you also hold these controllers, and it's almost like you're transported into the area that you're playing.

0:05:10 - (Nicole): That sounds like a lot of fun. I want to come to Nonna's house.

0:05:15 - (Tracy): You're welcome anytime.

0:05:17 - (Nicole): And, Jaxon, so in grade five at school, what are your favourite things to learn at school, then?

0:05:23 - (Jaxon): I like art. Science. Yeah. Sometimes English and writing.

0:05:31 - (Nicole): It's a good combination of things.

0:05:33 - (Tracy): What about music?

0:05:34 - (Jaxon): Oh, yeah. And music.

0:05:35 - (Nicole): Oh, do you play an instrument? He's very creative.

0:05:38 - (Jaxon): Yeah.

0:05:40 - (Nicole): What do you play?

0:05:41 - (Jaxon): Piano.

0:05:42 - (Nicole): I always thought I should have learnt to play piano because I do like to sing as well. But I learned to play the trumpet, and it's kind of hard to sing and play the trumpet at the same.

0:05:50 - (Jaxon): Time I learned to play, and I've.

0:05:54 - (Tracy): Always thought, oh, I really wish I could play piano. And so I bought a piano, which is in our house, and now Jackson is far better than me. I am rubbish. And he is very good. So it's helped him, but not me in any way.

0:06:09 - (Nicole): At least it's getting used. That's the main thing.

0:06:12 - (Tracy): Every time he's here, he is.

0:06:14 - (Nicole): All right. Good. Jackson so, liking science and art and a bit of English and writing, do you have any idea what you want to do when you leave school? What do you want to do for a job?

0:06:27 - (Jaxon): I did want to work with chemistry, or if not, maybe, probably it. If not yeah.

0:06:39 - (Nicole): What kind of thing in chemistry did you want to do?

0:06:43 - (Jaxon): Mainly elements.

0:06:45 - (Nicole): Are you a Minecrafter? Yes, of course.

0:06:52 - (Tracy): How could you guess?

0:06:54 - (Nicole): Just a wild, wild guess. Oh, cool. So that's gotten you interested in elements and different bits and pieces that work together. Yeah. What kind of job, though? Do you think you'll be in a lab, as a chemist, in a laboratory, or do you think you'll be out in the field doing experiments? What are you thinking about for your chemistry?

0:07:16 - (Jaxon): Maybe experiments, maybe lab. Yeah, because you've got to work out.

0:07:21 - (Nicole): Whether you want to be working inside or outside or with people or by yourself. Tracy, do you prefer working inside or outside?

0:07:29 - (Tracy): Inside, because it's very hard to see screens outside and I'm always on a screen, so I'm always on my computer, on my phone, so it's much easier for me to be. Plus, you know, with my accent, you can tell that I'm not born in Australia, so there's only so much heat or humidity that I can take. Much. Nicer to be in the aircon and be nice and chill.

0:07:54 - (Nicole): Definitely.

0:07:55 - (Tracy): And comfortable, right?

0:07:56 - (Nicole): Yeah, for sure. So you are not born in Australia, but you have a name for grandmother that is Italian, but your accent doesn't tell me that you're Italian. So where were you born?

0:08:12 - (Tracy): I was born in Scotland, so I was born in Glasgow. And we actually chose Nana because Jackson and Aria, his sister, are very lucky. They actually have a nana and they have a gran and they have two nanas. And so we had to choose something different so that we weren't all gran or nana, basically. And we thought, well, why not? Nana? It's a nice name and it's easy. So I sometimes get called Nana. Teddy and other nana sometimes get called Nanu.

0:08:48 - (Nicole): That's very cute. I like that because it does. When you've got all these grandparents and you have to give them names that you can kind of connect it to.

0:08:56 - (Tracy): Imagine all that. Love.

0:08:58 - (Nicole): So much love. That's the best bit. I wanted to ask you, Tracy, as Chief Digital Officer, what is your favorite.

0:09:07 - (Tracy): Thing about your oh, that's a really great question. I think applying digital solutions or products or services to something with purpose. So a lot of what we do is very purpose driven, and it's about helping people kind of get better in their digital literacy or their data maturity or sometimes it's just with really basic digital problems that they might be having and seeing that moment for them where they realize, oh, my gosh, this is going to make a difference to me in my day to day life or in my job or my community or whatever it might be.

0:09:47 - (Tracy): That, for me, is like, the coolest part of what I do. So I think for me, digital is an enabler, but ultimately enabling something with purpose is just a really beautiful feeling, and I think that's something that I'm probably most happy about in my kind of job.

0:10:05 - (Nicole): And how did you get this job? What did you do to become a Chief Digital Officer? Because that's a pretty big job.

0:10:11 - (Tracy): Yeah, it is. I sometimes can't really believe I have.

0:10:14 - (Nicole): It, to be honest.

0:10:15 - (Tracy): I'm like, how did I get here? Well, I mean, I've been doing it a long time, right? So I've been in kind of digital, definitely, sort of 20 years plus. But I really think I don't really know how I got here sometimes. And I know that's a weird thing to say, because when I came to Australia, I sort of started off in some artificial intelligence space and content space, which was cool. Then I kind of moved into managing teams, and they were digital teams then.

[TRANSCRIPT]

0:00:00 - (Tracy): But I really think I don't really know how I got here sometimes. And I know that's a weird thing to say, because when I came to Australia, I sort of started off in some artificial intelligence space and content space, which was cool. Then I kind of moved into managing teams, and they were digital teams then, I guess social media came along sort of twelve years ago. And that really, for me, cemented my purpose again, coming back to purpose, because it happened during the Brisbane Floods, and I was managing social media for Brisbane City Council at the time, and I realized then just how important access and inclusion is in the digital space and how important it is to have companies also understand that. And so that kind of escalated and expedited my journey into digital a little bit more.

0:00:51 - (Tracy): And then I just really focused on wider digital roles other than social. And so that's kind of how I got here. And I've been really lucky to always have opportunities to build teams and manage teams, and I love that. So, yeah, that's kind of where I got to, obviously, at LGAQ. There you go. And then they hired was a surprise. But I'm still there, so I'm doing something right, I think.

0:01:17 - (Nicole): I think for sure. Jackson, do you know, did you want to go to university?

0:01:22 - (Jackson): I think. Yes, Tracy.

0:01:27 - (Tracy): Yes, I did. I did. I did my undergrad degree many years ago. I will not say because it will make me far too aged, but Jackson was actually there when I did my MBA, and when I graduated with my MBA, he came to the ceremony, remember? And you had your photo with the hat on as well. Yeah. So he came along to that for my MBA.

0:01:48 - (Nicole): I love the hat. I'm a big fan of that. What was the first degree then? Was the undergraduate degree the first degree that you did? Was that in computing?

0:01:58 - (Tracy): No, it was in behavioral science. Yeah. So I know that's a bit weird, and people always think, how the heck did you get into digital? But actually, I think when I did my degree back in the days of sharing computers in the library and things like that, I started to think about how people communicate online. And so it was very early days back then of forums and online spaces, and I was thinking about what's the psychology and the sociology behind connecting easier online than in person. And so that kind of started me into that space of how can you use online spaces to connect with people? And so that's kind of where that started. So, although it seems a bit abstract, I think applying it behavioral science, probably every day is probably happening.

0:02:44 - (Tracy): I feel like I'm a bit of a yeah, so I think that's where that came from, probably.

0:02:51 - (Nicole): Wow, that's a fascinating journey. Jackson, you said about chemistry, and then you were thinking, I wonder if I was going to do something else. What do you think of something else might be then? Because you're not telling us about different roads and paths that have kind of wound about to get her to where she is. Is there anything else that you'd be interested in as well as the chemistry?

0:03:12 - (Jackson): I really do like being creative and how I like art and minecraft and all those different creative things. So, yeah, I don't really know much else, but probably something else will be something really creative.

0:03:36 - (Nicole): That sounds great.

0:03:37 - (Tracy): I'm hoping, Nick, that he comes to work with us at Haven XR. I don't know if you can see, we're both representing today.

0:03:45 - (Nicole): Oh, I love the shirt.

0:03:46 - (Tracy): There we go. And Jackson's is very special. Jackson's has got an official he's the only one in the world. So I'm hoping maybe if that goes well, he can come and be working at Haven with me. That would be awesome.

0:04:02 - (Nicole): That would be incredible. Now the people who are listening are going, hang on, didn't she just say that she worked at LGAQ? So we talk about Haven. Tell us about Haven, Jackson, as the official playtester.

0:04:16 - (Jackson): So Haven is just like VR, but it's like real things, not like how VR is. Like, Oculus is usually stuff like maybe simulators of different things. Whereas Haven, which is XR, is real things.

0:04:42 - (Tracy): Yeah, that's good.

0:04:43 - (Nicole): And it's your nana's company, isn't it? Because she's got a job as well as a whole other company that she runs.

0:04:50 - (Jackson): Yeah, he's described that pretty well, actually.

0:04:54 - (Nicole): Yeah, that was impressive.

0:04:56 - (Tracy): But yeah, Jackson's going to be a good play tester because he loves VR. And with Haven, like you said, because you're combining virtual realm and real physical realm, it's going to be really interesting to have him testing some of the kids movies and stuff that we'll be making. So he'll be one of the first to get in there and try them out and tell us if they're any good. So that's pretty cool. So I'm excited about that for him as well.

0:05:21 - (Nicole): Yeah. And so did Jackson. Explain, haven XR? Is there more for us to know? Tracy?

0:05:27 - (Tracy): I guess the key thing to know would be that we call it an immersive cinematic adventure. And so what that means is you go to a Haven XR center. So the first one will open next year in Malaysia and then closely followed by Singapore and then China. But you go there and you essentially step into a movie and become character in a movie. And the first one is actually a horror movie. So he won't be testing that one, but we'll be building out some other ones that he definitely can go in and try. So, yeah, it's like he said, an XR experience, which means we blend the physical world that's tangible in touch, and you can reach out and feel it. But also in the headset, the virtual realm, we also put a whole bunch of other cool sensory immersion in there, like smell, heat, cold, wind, a whole bunch of cool stuff. Yeah. So it's pretty immersive.

0:06:18 - (Nicole): That sounds amazing. So I've been to a 4d cinema, I've read a Choose Your Own Adventure book. I feel like this is a whole other level to what those two things have given people.

0:06:30 - (Tracy): Yes. And you'll be walking around in the movie, you'll basically be walking around, interacting with things, making decisions. And, yeah, it's going to be pretty cool. So we launched our partnership about four weeks ago, five weeks ago in Malaysia. The partner that we have there is a Singapore stock exchange listed company that specialize in attractions. And so they've got nearly 300 attractions globally, including places like Universal Studios and Legoland and all of that. So a great partner for us. And we're planning to roll them out, hopefully 30 in Malaysia in the first three years and pushing for 200 in China in five years. So it's going to be pretty exciting.

0:07:08 - (Nicole): That's amazing. I don't want to test the horror one either, though. Jackson, you and I can wait for the second one. You can wait? Sounds good to me. Tracy, now that you're Chief Digital Officer and you run Haven XR, those are way past a first job because you've obviously done lots of jobs in between. So what was your first job?

0:07:33 - (Tracy): Oh, my goodness. As in when I was a child, like when I was a teenager? Yeah, my first job was when I was 14 and I got a job flipping burgers at Ibrook Stadium in Glasgow, which is where Glasgow Rangers play. So long history of Rangers fans in my family. And so I would go there every Saturday when the game was on, or midweek when the game was on, and we'd be in the stands flipping the burgers for halftime and things like that. So that was my very first job when I was 14, and I think I've had a job pretty much ever since then. Maybe I need a break.

0:08:10 - (Nicole): Actually, that sounds like a good idea. Maybe Jackson can take over. Jackson, what do you think your first job is going to be? Apart from official playtester?

0:08:21 - (Jackson): Yeah, probably something easy. Maybe like a food shop.

0:08:27 - (Tracy): Woolworths or something.

0:08:29 - (Jackson): Is that what you yeah, yeah, maybe something like that.

0:08:33 - (Nicole): Nice. You know that if you work at Woolworths, you get a discount on your groceries, so that helps out the family, too. Tracy, what has been your favorite job of the jobs that you've had, apart from the ones you're doing right now?

0:08:47 - (Tracy): My favorite job was in 2015. I was lucky enough to head up the digital team for the Commonwealth Games on the Gold Coast. And so I went there, straight from Brisbane city council, which I really loved. But I went there just for the opportunity to work on a global event. And I was there for three years, obviously until games were completed. That was my favorite job because it was just really fun and we had so many cool projects to work on and fun things to do.

0:09:18 - (Tracy): But I think what I liked about it most was we all had the same deadline and we all had the same purpose, which was on the 4 April at 08:00 P.m., that games had to start and go ahead. And so everyone worked towards the same goal and that really changes a company and how you think and the things you say yes and no to. But it also builds a really good sense of collaboration between everyone because the pressure's on everyone to deliver. So that for me was probably the best. Plus we also got to deliver Boroby the mascot, which is one of my favourite projects ever.

0:09:54 - (Tracy): Jackson's met Borbie many times when he used to come to the games with me in the office. A really it really speaks a lot to having a shared sense of purpose and a clear vision, I think, and how that changes a company.

0:10:09 - (Nicole): Yeah, you've said that a few times. That's obviously something that really drives you, being purposeful.

0:10:15 - (Tracy): Yeah. Otherwise it's just a job, right? And you have all these wonderful people in your life you'd rather be spending time with. So if you can't find purpose, I think whilst you're at work, then it's really challenging to be there. I'd rather be with my wife or my family, but obviously have to pay the bills like yeah. So purpose is a good thing.

0:10:38 - (Nicole): Yeah, for sure.

0:10:39 - (Tracy): Doing. Yeah.

0:10:41 - (Nicole): And Jackson, it sounds like Your Honor has a good job. A couple of good jobs, actually. What do you think makes a job a good job?

0:10:50 - (Jackson): Well, things being fun, like having fun jobs to do and tasks and doing things that you really like to do.

0:11:03 - (Nicole): And what about the people that you work with? Are they important, do you think, in a good job?

0:11:09 - (Jackson): Yeah, kind people, people that might encourage each other, that'd probably be a very good job.

0:11:16 - (Nicole): So in that case, what would a bad job for you look like? So that if you think about something, oh, I would hate to do that job. What would that job look like?

0:11:26 - (Jackson): Probably rude workers around you doing tasks that you don't really like. Yeah, mainly just really rude. Maybe mean people around you.

0:11:41 - (Nicole): Yeah, people make a big difference. Tracy, what's the hardest job you've ever done?

0:11:47 - (Tracy): Oh my goodness, the hardest job? Such a good question. I think there's probably two and I think they probably share similar issues, I guess I'll say one. I worked at Bond University many years ago and I had a beautiful team who were just wonderful and just really dedicated team. But the reason that it was hard was that the culture was not conducive to supporting people. It came sort of from one particular area and one particular person, as it often does, but that really permeated through the rest of the business.

0:12:26 - (Tracy): And so I actually I mean, I'm I'm a stare. Usually, like at jobs, I don't sort of float in and out of them too often, but that one I only lasted, I think, a year. And then I quit. And the reason I quit was just something had happened, specifically that week where someone very senior embarrassed one of my team in an all hands meeting. And I just thought, nah, that's it, I'm out. It was just a really toxic place and it gave me that realization of I'm never going to fit.

0:12:54 - (Tracy): So that was really hard emotionally. And then I had something similar happen. I don't want to be too specific, but another job. And I really tried for two years to really change the culture. And I had a bubble again around my team, and we just had such a great culture and we were really supportive and doing amazing things. But unfortunately, when we stepped outside of that bubble, I call it the wall of no, which is just no to everything.

0:13:19 - (Tracy): I'm going to block everything. I'm going to sneak behind your backs and try and cause drama. And it was all quite toxic, and I just emotionally felt that was really, really hard. And it was my wife Angela, who one night she said to me, this is changing who you are at home and you really need to look after yourself. That was enough for me. And I was like, okay, I need to make that change. So I think anywhere that I feel culture is toxic or that I can't affect it in a positive way will be really hard for me because that's what I like doing. So those two were probably the hardest, I think.

0:13:55 - (Tracy): So not physically challenging or anything, but emotionally, yeah.

0:14:00 - (Nicole): And it's amazing how that happens just from an environment that you're in.

0:14:04 - (Tracy): I think all of us probably at some point know when the challenge is done and we have to give in or where there's no challenge anymore is the other side of it. Right. And so you have to know that point. And I think I've learned that now and I would know it in the future.

0:14:20 - (Jackson): Yeah.

0:14:21 - (Nicole): Hey, Jackson. So as a chemist, someone who's doing chemistry and working with elements, do you think you're going to be going to university?

0:14:28 - (Jackson): Yes.

0:14:30 - (Nicole): Is there anything about uni or work that you're really excited about? What are you most looking forward to?

0:14:39 - (Jackson): I don't know exactly what to call it, but doing new things? Yeah.

0:14:45 - (Nicole): Just having those new experiences, learning new things.

0:14:49 - (Jackson): Yeah.

0:14:51 - (Nicole): Do you like doing that kind of stuff? You like pushing yourself a little bit and learning new stuff?

0:14:56 - (Jackson): Yeah.

0:14:57 - (Nicole): When was the last time you did something that was really hard and you felt really proud afterwards?

0:15:02 - (Jackson): It was actually today. I was on these trampolines. You get a harness strapped to you and you're on a trampoline and I was jumping, and then the person came over to me and said, can you see if you can do a backflip? So I was like I was a bit nervous to do it at the start, and then in the end, about five minutes before I got off, I ended up doing a double backflip.

0:15:36 - (Nicole): A double so not just one. You had to up the ante.

0:15:41 - (Tracy): Jackson's a very he's a big thinker, Nick. He likes to really think a lot. He likes to take it all know and assess things first and sort of he's very conscious of risk and, you know, is this dangerous? Am I going to be safe? How much can I push myself? And then every single time, he always manages to do it. But he likes to really think about it quite a bit and consider all of the possibilities before you make a decision.

0:16:12 - (Tracy): He's very quiet now.

0:16:14 - (Nicole): That's really cool. And so how did it feel after you did the double backflip?

0:16:19 - (Jackson): Well, I thought it was super cool, and when I ended up doing it, I thought, wow, I can't believe that I just did that.

0:16:32 - (Nicole): That's so impressive. Tracy, on challenging days at work, what are the hard things? What makes it hard sometimes?

0:16:40 - (Tracy): Nick, you're asking all the good questions. I think two things. People make it hard sometimes, but I think sometimes people get really stuck in their ways, and I understand that, but that can be a challenge to me sometimes because I like to deliver. So I'm someone that's like, okay, cool. Here's the vision. This is where we're going. Let's go. And then I like to think that I give my teams enough space to breathe and follow the vision without me being too involved.

0:17:15 - (Tracy): Where I think it's hard sometimes is if they are trying to do their best work and they come up against that negativity, or that's not how we usually do it, or that's how we used to do it, which is the worst thing you can ever say. So I think that's really hard, but I think I'm getting better. But I think the hard thing for me is seeing people struggle at work really breaks my heart, them, and I want to help them, but sometimes you can't, and that's really hard. Like, as a leader, you always want to think that you can help someone and make them better. And when you feel that you can't, that's a really difficult thing. And you take that energy with you sometimes at home, and you overthink things. So I think anything that's to do with people is always the most challenging. It's not the technology, surprisingly, although that can be challenging. But generally people, I think.

0:31:33 - (Nicole):Bring your kid to work is a Lioness Media production. This episode was produced and edited by me, Nicole Lessio. Our music is composed by Rikuo with graphics and design from Anastasia Makhuka. Subscribe to Bring Your Kid to Work wherever you're listening right now to hear all our episodes and you can also share with your friends. We hope they enjoy listening too. You can follow us on Instagram at Bring Your Kid to Work and on Facebook at Bring Your Kid to Work. The podcast. And you can follow me on TikTok. Nicole Lessio visit BringyourkidtoWork.com to see bonus content, transcripts from our episodes and to sign up to our newsletter for the latest updates. Thanks for listening.