Episode Thirteen - The Pharmacist/ Social Justice Advocate

0:00:01 - (Nicole): Bring your kid to work is being recorded in Meeanjin, and we acknowledge and pay our respects to the Jagerra and Turrbl people as the traditional custodians of the land and waters on which we learn work and play. And we extend our respect to all Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander peoples. It's time to bring your kid to work. Hey, everyone, it's time to bring your kid to work. It's the family podcast that explores the world of work through the eyes of parents and their kids.

0:00:27 - (Nicole): Each week we interview one parent and their child to chat about what they do for work, what they like, what they don't like, and how they got there in the first place. Let's find out who we're talking to today. Our guests today are Peter and his son, Ezra. Peter Branjerdporn does a number of jobs, but today we're talking about just two of them. He's a pharmacist. You know, the person at the chemist who helps you by dispensing your medicine or giving you some good advice.

0:00:57 - (Nicole): And he's a social justice advocate working with the church to bring people together to help solve some of our world's tricky problems. He has what some people might call a portfolio career. That's one when you do a little bit of this and a little bit of that, not just one full time job. He brings with him his ten year old son Ezra, who is keen on being an engineer when he grows up. He's just not sure which kind.

0:01:21 - (Nicole): I loved hearing Peter's passion for both of his jobs. This was a great chat that I really enjoyed. You're going to love it as much as I did. Let's get on with the show. Welcome to bring your kid to work. I'm really excited today because I have some very special guests, and this episode is called the Pharmacist slash Social Justice Advocate. Yay. I want to welcome our special guests today. I'll start with our younger special guests. Can you introduce yourself, please?

0:01:51 - (Ezra): Hi, I'm Ezra Branjerdporn.

0:01:53 - (Nicole): Ezra, how old are you?

0:01:55 - (Ezra): 10.

0:01:57 - (Nicole): 10. So what grade are you in at school?

0:01:58 - (Ezra): Year five.

0:01:59 - (Nicole): And what do you love at school? Like what subjects? What do you do that's really great?

0:02:05 - (Ezra): Like math and PE.

0:02:06 - (Nicole): Maths and PE? Yeah. Those are your favorites. Why are those your favorites?

0:02:11 - (Ezra): They're fun.

0:02:12 - (Nicole): Yeah? What's fun about them? You just like them.

0:02:16 - (Ezra): Yeah, fair enough.

0:02:17 - (Nicole): You're allowed to just like what you like. Are there things you don't like? What don't you like?

0:02:22 - (Ezra): Science. The experiments are boring.

0:02:24 - (Nicole): We don't like boring. What kind of science experiment would be exciting then?

0:02:28 - (Ezra): Things in high school.

0:02:30 - (Nicole): Yeah, things with Bunsen burners, maybe?

0:02:33 - (Ezra): Yeah.

0:02:33 - (Nicole): Flames, chemicals. Yeah, those sound like fun. I remember we had to get our license for a Bunsen burner. You had to do like a whole test and make sure that you were allowed to use it. Do they still do that?

0:02:44 - (Ezra): No, I don't think.

0:02:46 - (Nicole): No, I hope not. Because I reckon you'd be very responsible with one of those. We trust you with a Bunsen burner. Do we trust him with a Bunsen burner? Our other guest. No, our other guest. Introduce yourself.

0:02:59 - (Peter): Hello, I'm Ezra's dad. I'm Peter Branjaporn. And my favorite subject is lunch.

0:03:08 - (Nicole): I reckon you would have had good lunches too, Peter.

0:03:11 - (Peter): True.

0:03:11 - (Nicole): This episode has got two different job titles in it. And some people are going, hang on, pharmacist. Wait a minute. Social justice advocate. Oh, I'm very confused. Why do we have two job titles in our title of this episode today?

0:03:25 - (Peter): Because that's two of my many jobs. And it's just the way life's kind of turned out for me. I was a pharmacist full time for a long time. And then I got really bored and we went overseas for a year. And then I came back. Our family went overseas. I was volunteering with aid on the border of Thailand and Burma. And then, yeah, came back and I couldn't get a job as a pharmacist full time anymore. So, yeah, so I just kind of started putting my feelers out for other things.

0:03:59 - (Peter): And one thing led to another. Like, I did a bit of it, kind of e learning stuff, which I still do a little bit of contract kind of work. Yeah, kind of fell into the social justice advocacy stuff in a way by accident, but just one of my passions and fell into it, really. I get asked all the time, are you qualified? What qualifications do you have for that? I was like, nothing.

0:04:20 - (Nicole): A big heart, basically.

0:04:21 - (Peter): Just a sucker for helping things to happen. Yeah. So it just kind of happened that way. And I guess the pharmacy thing is I really like it. That's why I still do it. And also, once you get out of it, it's hard to get back in.

0:04:36 - (Nicole): Fair enough. So, Ezra, the two different jobs that Dad's had, dad is talking about. One of them is pharmacist. Do you know what dad does as.

0:04:44 - (Ezra): A, uh, gives people medicine? Yeah, if the doctors prescribe it.

0:04:49 - (Nicole): Yep. That sounds like a pretty straightforward explanation. What about as a social justice advocate? What does dad do in that job?

0:04:58 - (Ezra): He works for a church and does stuff.

0:05:03 - (Nicole): Does stuff. So he works for a church and he does stuff. Does he do stuff inside? Like in an office? Does he do stuff outside? What do you reckon?

0:05:11 - (Ezra): Outside?

0:05:11 - (Nicole): Outside, you think?

0:05:13 - (Ezra): Yeah.

0:05:13 - (Nicole): How about we ask him? We'll find out. Peter, as a social justice advocate, is that an office based job? Are you out and about? What does it mean? What do you do all day?

0:05:22 - (Peter): Yeah, it depends on what day you catch me. So I work three days a week for the Anglican Church, Southern Queensland, which is the Brisbane Diocese, I guess. And it's a really weird job. So there's a lot of different things, and that title probably doesn't capture a lot of. So what I do is many things, but why I do it is because there's a committee, the Social Responsibilities Committee for the Anglican Church in Brisbane, and they actually are very busy people, so they tell me what to do and then I do it.

0:06:01 - (Peter): But I guess the main responsibilities I have is be that person to bring Christians together, Anglicans and people of other faith, sometimes together around a certain issue that's a concern. So social justice climate, environmental stuff, it could be anything from gambling to homelessness. Whatever it is is a problem in the world. And people of faith should be a part of fixing. That's one part of it. The other part is actually be connected to groups that are doing excellent stuff, which is already happeniNg, and the church needs to know about that.

0:06:37 - (Peter): I will go to different campaign meetings and all sorts of different networks to bring really good stuff back into the church so they can be involved in some way. So I see myself as a bit of a bridge between what the church does and know social justice groups in general does.

0:06:53 - (Nicole): Gotcha. Okay, so you're talking to lots of people all the time.

0:06:57 - (Peter): Yes, a lot of talking and listening.

0:07:01 - (Nicole): Hopefully listening. Ezra, is your dad a good listener?

0:07:03 - (Ezra): Kind of.

0:07:06 - (Nicole): When you get big. Ezra, do you want to be a pharmacist or a social justice advocate, do you think?

0:07:12 - (Ezra): Not particularly, no.

0:07:14 - (Nicole): What do you think you might want to do when you get big?

0:07:16 - (Ezra): Engineering.

0:07:17 - (Nicole): Ooh, what kind of engineering?

0:07:19 - (Ezra): Not sure yet.

0:07:20 - (Nicole): Okay, so you know there's different kinds of.

0:07:23 - (Ezra): Yeah, yeah.

0:07:23 - (Nicole): So I know there are, let me think, mechanical engineers and structural engineers who want to build bridges and things like that. Does that sound interesting or. Yeah, yeah.

0:07:33 - (Peter): Software engineering.

0:07:34 - (Nicole): Software engineering. I missed that one. Thank you, Peter.

0:07:37 - (Peter): That means you can make computer games, maybe.

0:07:42 - (Nicole): And so do you think you're going to be inside all the time? Do you like being inside all the time in an office, or do you think you're going to want to be out and about?

0:07:48 - (Ezra): Well, I don't have an office, so I wouldn't know.

0:07:51 - (Nicole): No, not yet. But when you're big, do you think your life, every day at work, do you think you're going to want to be chilling in an office with people or do you're going to be out and about?

0:07:59 - (Ezra): Out and about doing what?

0:08:01 - (Nicole): I don't know. I don't know what engineers do. I haven't had an engineer yet. We need to get an engineer and they can answer these questions.

0:08:07 - (Ezra): Then I'm not really sure.

0:08:09 - (Nicole): Fair enough. We're going to find out. I've got it on my list now. Engineer. We need to find one and we'll interview them and then we'll have answers. Does that sound okay?

0:08:18 - (Ezra): Yeah.

0:08:18 - (Nicole): Cool. And so, as an engineer, does that mean that you like solving problems? Because that's kind of what they do, isn't it?

0:08:24 - (Ezra): Well, I'm not an engineer.

0:08:26 - (Nicole): No, but do you like solving problems now? Is that why you want to be one? Yeah. And so maths is something that you solve problems in. Yeah. But science experiments, they're boring.

0:08:36 - (Ezra): Well, that's because in primary school you don't do good experiments.

0:08:40 - (Nicole): Yeah, fair enough. So do you think you might do science at high school then?

0:08:44 - (Ezra): Probably.

0:08:45 - (Nicole): What are you looking forward to when it comes to going to high school?

0:08:47 - (Ezra): Not much, no.

0:08:49 - (Nicole): Are you a bit scared?

0:08:50 - (Ezra): Yeah.

0:08:51 - (Nicole): Yeah. What are you scared of?

0:08:52 - (Ezra): Not sure.

0:08:54 - (Nicole): I know the school that you're going to go to is very big. There are a lot of people there. Is that a bit scary?

0:08:59 - (Ezra): Yeah.

0:09:00 - (Nicole): Yeah, I find that. I find it scary going to that school just as a parent, because there's so many people.

0:09:06 - (Peter): Me too.

0:09:06 - (Nicole): Everywhere. But, yeah, I think you'll work it out because you're a problem solver. Peter, when you were little, did you want to be a pharmacist and a social justice advocate?

0:09:18 - (Peter): No, because I didn't know what those things. So I grew up in Thailand and Asian families, you either become a doctor or an engineer. Another option I had was like, an architect, but they're very kind of like traditional, stereotypical Asian things to do. And I almost got into kind of design, architectural stuff because I was pretty good at high school. But it just kind of. Yeah. The thing that kind of got me was I actually really enjoyed science as well.

0:09:51 - (Nicole): You didn't do boring experiments then?

0:09:53 - (Peter): No, I was going to say the experiments Ezra is looking forward to is probably more like explosive ones, which you get to eventually.

0:10:00 - (Nicole): Yes, please.

0:10:01 - (Peter): And like something that his sister's been doing recently is like, cutting up animal hearts and stuff. So that's a bit more interesting.

0:10:06 - (Ezra): Ill.

0:10:08 - (Peter): It's fine.

0:10:09 - (Nicole): I'm with you, Iz.

0:10:10 - (Peter): Yeah. So I think, unfortunately, when I was growing up, it was all about thinking about something. Yes, something you like to do, but also something that made a lot of money. Unfortunately, that's the way kind of, I was brought up. Not. Not to be money hungry, but that was kind of why you would think about kind of secure kind of job or whatever. And I actually was about to trying to get into dentistry because we were all told that that was the thing that made money for me.

0:10:40 - (Peter): I just wanted to do a job that would give me a lot of security. And I think, in a way, I was really glad I didn't get in because I ended up doing pharmacy, which is, I think, suits my skills a lot more. Like, I'm more of a people kind of oriented person. Not that dentists. I've got really good friends who are dentists and very personable people, but it's just hard to talk to people when their mouth is open all the time.

0:11:02 - (Peter): Permanently open.

0:11:04 - (Nicole): You got instruments in there.

0:11:05 - (Peter): I know, right? So, yeah, it's something that I really enjoy it. Being a pharmacist, I just don't think I want to do it full time. And I think, as I found out, I was a bit miserable when I was working as a full time pharmacist. So that's why we went overseas. And I think I enjoyed having a bit of variety in my life. And as far as social justice, I was concerned. I just can't believe I get paid to do this work, because that's how I felt on day one. I still feel the same. I'm just like, I get to do what I'm passionate about.

0:11:40 - (Peter): And it pays a bill. Not. Doesn't pay a lot of the bills, but pays some of the bills.

0:11:45 - (Nicole): That's why we've got two job titles. Yeah, but that's the beautiful thing, though, isn't it, that you don't have to just do one thing. So, Ezra, you could be an engineer and you could be doing something else if you were interested, but if you're full on engineering, you can do that. Full.

0:12:00 - (Ezra): Yeah.

0:12:01 - (Nicole): Yeah. That's pretty cool. And so when your dad was full time at the pharmacy and he was saying he was a bit miserable, what's a grumpy dad look like when he comes home?

0:12:09 - (Ezra): My normal one.

0:12:12 - (Peter): Hello. Cut that bit out.

0:12:16 - (Nicole): That's funny. You're a cheeky bum. But now that he's doing this social justice work as well, can you see a difference in dad?

0:12:23 - (Ezra): He's more stressed.

0:12:26 - (Nicole): Yeah. Why do you reckon that is? Do you think maybe he's a bit more stressed because he cares so much and he wants to get stuff done.

0:12:33 - (Ezra): Could be it.

0:12:34 - (Nicole): What do you reckon, Peter?

0:12:36 - (Peter): I think the disclaimer Is Ezra was quite young when I started branching out. So I think we came back from Thailand. I think, like, gosh, it's funny because I think that was when Ezra was born and we came back. So it took me a few years to kind of come to a balance, I guess, probably, yeah. By the time I got going, he was still only maybe three or four. He might not have known Peter pre change, but the know, like, I make it sound easy to have different jobs, but it's like, it is stressful because you're switching your mind. And oftentimes your partner doesn't know where you know, because she's like, what day is this? Where are you?

0:13:14 - (Peter): And the joy for me is actually when I'm at the work. It sounds weird, but I was like, oh, tomorrow I'll be somewhere else. I'm happy about that because it's almost like particularly for people who work in health or retail. Health retail sort of thing. You can quickly become part of a furniture and then people don't appreciate you because you're just there. But when you're kind of, like part time, people go, oh, thank God. Thank God you're here today.

0:13:36 - (Peter): We really need you. So it could be an ego thing, but I think it makes you fresh, it makes you go, cool. I've had a week away from this place and, okay, I'm here. I can give it 100% because walk out. And then I'd have to think about this for another week or whatever. Yeah. I think I'm more present when I'm at those different places and it's never boring.

0:13:53 - (Nicole): Yeah, it sounds like it's a good balance for you. A good job. Ezra, what do you think a good job is? What makes a job a good job, do you reckon?

0:14:04 - (Ezra): Well, you're enjoying it and it's well paid. Yeah, it's you.

0:14:10 - (Nicole): What about the people you work with? Do you think that's important?

0:14:13 - (Ezra): Yeah. Like if they're super rude or, like.

0:14:17 - (Nicole): Kind makes a difference.

0:14:19 - (Ezra): Yeah.

0:14:20 - (Nicole): When you're at school, do you like to be around the super rude people or the kind people?

0:14:24 - (Ezra): The kind people.

0:14:25 - (Nicole): So that's the same at work, I guess, when you get older and you'll want to be around the people who are kind. That makes a lot of sense. What about bad job? What do you think a bad job would be for you?

0:14:38 - (Ezra): You don't enjoy it. It's probably not well paid, not very secure. And the people you work with are maybe rude.

0:14:49 - (Nicole): Yeah. Because that's no fun. You want to have a bit of fun when you're at work. That's important too. So you want to be an engineer when you're big, but that's not normally a job that people get first. So what do you think your first job might be when you're at high school?

0:15:05 - (Ezra): Maybe working in a plant shop with my sister.

0:15:10 - (Nicole): Because your sister works at a plant shop?

0:15:12 - (Ezra): Yeah.

0:15:12 - (Nicole): Are you good at keeping plants alive?

0:15:16 - (Peter): Sorry.

0:15:18 - (Ezra): Depends.

0:15:19 - (Nicole): It depends, yeah. Do you have green thumbs? That's what they say about people who can do really well with plants. No, I think mine are black because I kill everything that I have owned. Is molly good at keeping plants alive? Is she good at her job, do you think?

0:15:34 - (Ezra): 100%, yeah.

0:15:35 - (Nicole): So you reckon she could teach you? Yeah. And so the plant shop, you'd be looking after plants, but you'd also be serving customers and stuff. Are you good talking to people and taking money and all that kind of thing? I think you'll find out. I reckon you'd be good at it for sure. Do you know what Dad's first job was? Back into the recesses of your mind? Chef told you. That doesn't mean he knows.

0:15:58 - (Ezra): I think it was a fast food restaurant.

0:16:01 - (Peter): Close.

0:16:01 - (Nicole): Yeah. How close was he, Peter?

0:16:03 - (Peter): It was a Thai restaurant. Yeah. In the kitchen. So I didn't serve customers very much.

0:16:08 - (Nicole): Washing dishes.

0:16:09 - (Peter): Yeah. Chopping things up, including my finger ones. That business didn't last very long since I started. A couple of weeks I went bust, so I don't know what happened.

0:16:22 - (Nicole): Oh, no.

0:16:23 - (Peter): Maybe my finger got into the food.

0:16:25 - (Nicole): There was some finger in the food. What happened after that, though? How do you get from there to be a pharmacist?

0:16:31 - (Peter): I did various jobs when I was at the background. Is that the reason why I got that job? I worked there was because my dad knew the owner, because it's very unusual for. And I don't know if your listeners notice, but a lot of Asian families, they don't send the kids out to work because I think kids job is to study and not to work. So, yeah. I don't know if it's changed these days, but the belief back then was that if you're a kid for Asian families, you study, study, study. You never go out to work, because why do you need to work? Your parents give you money, whatever. So it was very rare. Yeah. None of my friends, none of my Asian friends actually worked.

0:17:04 - (Nicole): Wow.

0:17:05 - (Peter): So I worked in Thai restaurant for a little bit, and then we would do, like, some leaflet drops around the suburb. That was, again, pretty rare, too. Uni. I did a bit of, like, tutoring at people's houses, taught a bit of guitar, and I did a couple of summers with working in fast food Chinese restaurants and stuff in the cities. So I guess I learned a little bit about serving customers before I became a pharmacist.

0:17:27 - (Peter): But I do want to say I wish I'd done some solid retail work before I got into pharmacy because I'd never actually served people properly in extended kind of. I didn't know how to use the tool properly, like that sort of stuff. Just basic skills for people to know. And so it took me a while to kind of smooth into this stuff and I wish I'd done a bit more of.

0:17:52 - (Nicole): Yeah. And so if Ezra's working at the plant shop, I'm guessing you're going to be using a till. So you'll have that skill.

0:17:58 - (Peter): Yeah. And you've come to the pharmacy a couple of times to see what we do.

0:18:02 - (Ezra): Yeah.

0:18:03 - (Nicole): What's the best part of having a pharmacist? Socialjustice advocate for a dad?

0:18:12 - (Ezra): Well, maybe for the pharmacist. He gets a lot of freebies from the pharmacy. Like stuff that expired, don't tell everyone.

0:18:20 - (Nicole): Face masks that have expired their date, stuff like that. Yeah. I saw the other day at the pharmacy when I was there, they had sunscreen, and next to it was, you know those grippy games that you get at the beach, a free gift with purchase thing. I was like, that would be cool if you were in the pharmacy and you get the freebies that come with the stuff that you sell when you go to school at the moment, sorry, science is off the table, but math and PE, great.

0:18:48 - (Nicole): What about the rest of the time? What do you love? Ezra, that is not school related.

0:18:52 - (Ezra): Sports like tennis and soccer and video games. And reading.

0:18:57 - (Nicole): Yeah, reading. You like to read as well? Yeah. And tennis and soccer. Do you play both of those games?

0:19:03 - (Ezra): Yeah.

0:19:03 - (Nicole): You're in teams or do you play by yourself?

0:19:05 - (Ezra): Both.

0:19:06 - (Nicole): So tennis by yourself, soccer teams?

0:19:09 - (Ezra): Well, I play for soccer club and I do, like, tennis training sessions.

0:19:13 - (Nicole): So. With other people?

0:19:15 - (Ezra): Yeah.

0:19:15 - (Nicole): That's cool. And do you think when you're big and you have a job, do you think you'll still do those things?

0:19:21 - (Ezra): There's a very small chance.

0:19:23 - (Nicole): You reckon?

0:19:24 - (Ezra): Yeah.

0:19:24 - (Nicole): Why do you think you're gonna stop?

0:19:26 - (Ezra): Well, unless I become like a sports star or something, the skill probably won't be needed.

0:19:32 - (Nicole): Gotcha. So if you can't be Leon or Messi, then why bother?

0:19:36 - (Peter): Is that what we're still playing for?

0:19:39 - (Nicole): Fun?

0:19:40 - (Ezra): Yeah, but dad, you don't do any sports training sessions?

0:19:44 - (Peter): I don't mean training, just play.

0:19:46 - (Ezra): Oh, yeah.

0:19:46 - (Nicole): Does your dad play things for fun?

0:19:48 - (Ezra): Soccer and tennis sometimes.

0:19:51 - (Nicole): And your dad said before that he was teaching people guitar. Is that something that he teaches you too?

0:19:57 - (Ezra): No.

0:19:57 - (Nicole): Are you interested in guitar?

0:19:58 - (Ezra): No.

0:19:59 - (Nicole): You don't like musical instruments?

0:20:00 - (Ezra): I mean, I play the bass clarinet and the piano.

0:20:03 - (Nicole): How good are you as a bass clarinetist and as a pianist?

0:20:06 - (Ezra): From like one to ten?

0:20:07 - (Nicole): Yeah. Give me a one to ten.

0:20:09 - (Ezra): One being?

0:20:10 - (Nicole): One being. I just picked it up and I now know where my fingers go.

0:20:14 - (Ezra): Ten being, ten being.

0:20:15 - (Nicole): I am in a symphony orchestra, which.

0:20:18 - (Ezra): Is really good, right?

0:20:19 - (Nicole): Yeah, totally. What do you reckon?

0:20:20 - (Ezra): Maybe five?

0:20:22 - (Nicole): Nice. You're on your way. Do you like it?

0:20:25 - (Ezra): Yeah.

0:20:25 - (Nicole): Do you think you'll keep that up when you get big?

0:20:27 - (Ezra): No.

0:20:28 - (Nicole): No, you're just going to learn the skills and be done with it. And I know, Peter, that you play guitar and you play piano. Is that another thing that you love to do outside of work?

0:20:38 - (Peter): Yes. I think the piano thing is a bit of a misconception, so I fake it. I tell people this every time, but I keep getting asked to do stuff and I try and like, no, I'm not a pianist. My dad was a piano teacher. He still plays. And I'm hearing as I talk about not wanting to do certain things, not just in this context, but other times. And a part of me is a little bit like that. I was like, ah, too much effort. So I never learned a piano from him, even though he would have taught me. I just couldn't be bothered. But I picked up the guitar really, really easily. I felt like it was more fun or whatever and less practice.

0:21:11 - (Peter): In a way, it's easier to get going. I think that's the thing, growing up in the church, it was something really useful. And that was part of my practice as a person of faith, as a Christian. And so for a long time I did it kind of almost semi professionally. Like, I was in a band and I was trying to. We made a few CDs, whatever, and now it's actually really useful in one of my jobs, which is the social justice stuff, because being in a church context, when you're a musician, doors open for you, because you go into a church and play a song and then talk about refugees or whatever, people just love music. So it's actually really helpful and probably makes me seem more skilled than I am in this area.

0:21:55 - (Peter): It's really, really useful. So going from someone who just kind of loves playing to someone who can write a bit of music about a certain topic, it just helps you craft your message a little bit. And that's something I've had to learn with this job. People talk about messaging and speaking the right language to right people, and that's kind of what songwriting is, in a way. So that's been helpful. And then as I get a bit older, for a long time, I didn't play music at church because I got sick of it, and, well, I got sick of church in general. And then as we kind of our family came along, we started to feel like we're connected back into that. So we've kind of been going back to church and recently been playing music at church again, which is great, because I feel like I'm at a place where I'm not wanting to play the cool songs anymore. Like, I actually like the old hymns, and I like Amazing grace.

0:22:44 - (Nicole): Well, that's a classic.

0:22:45 - (Peter): Yeah. And just kind of playing with younger people who are really passionate about their faith but don't have the baggage that I have. That's great, particularly about social justice, too. I feel like young people, Ezra's generation, and a bit older, they just don't have that kind of awkwardness or weird layers of whatever that my generation does. So we have to talk around a bush to get to a point about why should you help someone who's a refugee? Or why should we accept trans people or whatever, particularly in a church, their generation just. Why wouldn't you? What? Come on, let's just get on with it. So it's good because having a skill like music on an instrument kind of gives you another thing to connect beyond logic or reasons or whatever. And I just find that all these different skills. One of the reasons why I got this job at the church was because I knew a little bit of graphic design or video editing or all these side skills that you, particularly being in a band and trying to make it music, you have to do everything yourself. As you would know, you're doing a podcast.

0:23:46 - (Peter): There's all these little skills that you pick up along the way that you have to do because you don't want to pay someone else to do it for.

0:23:51 - (Nicole): You couldn't afford to pay someone else to do it.

0:23:53 - (Peter): So you had to learn it. And a lot of times just comes in really handy and makes you a bit more valuable as an employee because you help other people save money by you doing it yourself and you have more control over what happens with your projects and whatever. So I just think for young people, I always say get involved in stuff because you're going to pick up skills even if you don't fully love the project you're doing.

0:24:17 - (Peter): If there's good people in it or whatever, do it because you're going to learn stuff and that never goes to waste.

0:24:25 - (Nicole): And those skills are all transferable as well. You can use them in one context. You want to be in a band, you can play your music, or you can be at church and play music, or you can bring people together in a different way. Ezra, social justice, what does it mean, do you think?

0:24:37 - (Ezra): I'm not?

0:24:38 - (Nicole): Well, like, what are the kind of projects that dad works on when it comes to his social justice advocacy?

0:24:44 - (Ezra): He does this on Earth festival.

0:24:47 - (Nicole): What's that one about?

0:24:48 - (Ezra): Not sure. He does a lot of environmental campaign stuff.

0:24:52 - (Nicole): Yeah. And recently there was a big campaign that dad was involved in as well.

0:24:56 - (Ezra): Oh, the yes campaign.

0:24:57 - (Nicole): What was that one about?

0:24:58 - (Ezra): Do you know the yes campaign? If you voted no, then you were supporting the no voters, which was Indigenous people don't get a voice in Parliament, but if you're voting yes, you were saying they should get a voice in Parliament.

0:25:12 - (Nicole): Yeah. So those are the kind of things like environmental things and things where people need a bit of support and help. Dad wants to be involved in those. Do you like going to those kind of things?

0:25:21 - (Ezra): 50 50.

0:25:22 - (Peter): Do you remember any times I take you to Adam?

0:25:25 - (Ezra): You took me to some protests.

0:25:27 - (Nicole): Yeah.

0:25:27 - (Ezra): Things where you hand out flyers.

0:25:29 - (Nicole): Is that something you're going to keep doing when you move out? You reckon you'll get involved in social justice things when you're. And move out of home?

0:25:35 - (Ezra): Possibly.

0:25:36 - (Nicole): Do you reckon you're going to go to university?

0:25:38 - (Ezra): Yeah.

0:25:38 - (Nicole): Because engineers need to do that.

0:25:40 - (Ezra): Yeah.

0:25:40 - (Nicole): What's the most exciting thing that you think about when you think, I'm going to be out in the world doing my own thing, going to university, getting a job. What are you excited about for that stuff?

0:25:50 - (Ezra): No homework.

0:25:51 - (Nicole): Don't tell him, Peter. No homework. What else?

0:25:55 - (Peter): Having your own house.

0:25:56 - (Ezra): Yeah.

0:25:57 - (Nicole): It's nice to have your own space. Anything else?

0:25:59 - (Ezra): Less annoying siblings.

0:26:01 - (Peter): Wow.

0:26:02 - (Ezra): Although to my siblings I'm probably annoying.

0:26:04 - (Nicole): Possibly you'll just have maybe annoying roommates instead. When you were Ezra's age, Peter, what did you dream of your life would.

0:26:12 - (Peter): Be like, oh, gosh, how old are you? Ten.

0:26:15 - (Nicole): Were you still in Thailand when you were ten?

0:26:17 - (Peter): I was going to say, yes. Well, I was born here, but I grew up in Thailand, and I moved to Australia when I was 15. So, yeah, I would have been in primary school. And I always had this feeling because my parents were in ministry in Bangkok. So my dad was at Barber College teaching, and then he was in, like, a Christian organization, actually, in radio. I always had this feeling that our family just weren't as successful or as rich as other people, because I went to a really elite private school in Bangkok, and we were kind of the lower income people who weren't meant to be there.

0:26:52 - (Peter): So I was probably one of those students who weren't quite in the top tier of students, but just below. So I was like the second tier kind of crew. I always had this sense that I had to kind of do better to get into the next stratosphere. But at the same time, we're involved in the church. There's a sense that there's more to it than money. Right. There's more to life than just careers or whatever. Didn't really have a specific kind of thing in mind in terms of a career.

0:27:18 - (Peter): Looking back, I think I admire what my parents did, and I think probably what I absorbed from them was always having lots of people around. And even now I see my parents, they haven't changed. It's just help. They like to help people. In fact, I think they can't help doing that, and probably too much. I think when I said doctor and that kind of stuff, I think it was out of a sense of, okay, how do I help other people? So it's like a helping thing.

0:27:42 - (Peter): I think that having a sense of. Yeah, your contribution to the wider world as a person, as a Christian, growing up was very important for me, and I am very fortunate to have a partner who's really supportive of my desire to do that. But I think as a unit, you need that to happen, because I look at other people who really had their job, but they don't have an option for two people to be able to support each other that way.

0:28:06 - (Peter): And I think that's really important. Whatever people end up doing is to find ways forward that keeps them healthy and happy enough to look after themselves but feel a sense of contribution to the wider society and have a good family as well. It's about balance, Ezra.

0:28:24 - (Nicole): Balance is important. You need it for tennis and for soccer as weLl.

0:28:27 - (Ezra): True.

0:28:27 - (Nicole): Yeah. Peter, for you, what is the best thing about both of your jobs.

0:28:33 - (Peter): Pharmacy. The best thing about it is the best version of a pharmacist that I can be is someone who's being a pharmacist is actually being able to listen and get to the heart of what someone needs at that time. I think that's not always a box of medicine, and it sounds very cliche, but sometimes they just need someone to listen to what's going on. And you may not sell a product and you don't make any money from that sometimes. And my boss hopefully isn't listening, but sometimes you don't sell anything and that's okay. As a pharmacist, sometimes you have to.

0:29:05 - (Nicole): Do that, but you build trust and they come back.

0:29:07 - (Peter): Well, you hope so, but sometimes people never do. But I think at the end of the day, you're there to serve people and give them what they need at the time. And that sometimes means referring to someone else. Sometimes that's referring them to another pharmacy, because you don't have something that they need. And I think that's probably the best thing about it, is that you can serve people in their time of need. One thing that I like about it is you have time to talk to people, because I know doctors sometimes don't have the time to speak to people as much as we do. And that's why I think we're trusted, because people actually want to talk to someone. And then my other job in social justice advocacy, I like it when I can help people of faith be a voice in the world.

0:29:46 - (Peter): And so I really like it when we can be a voice, say, for refugees or climate justice. That is unexpected because normally people expect people from the church to only speak about moral kind of stuff and not be involved in justice, to be able to enable Christians to say, I believe in God and I believe in that God created the world, and however you want to believe that. But I think we care for the earth because God cares for us to come at it from not just a human rights point of view, but from a faith point of view. I just find that not only speaks volume for the church brings different sides together and say, this is not about religion or not or left or right, but it's actually about a deeper sense of humanity, which for us as people of faith comes from the sense that God's image is in everyone. So why wouldn't you help other people? And it's good for my faith. That's what I love about it, because it means my faith is real. It's not just hidden in a room somewhere it's active. I have to get out there and I have to own it. And it makes me actually only have to cry, but it makes me proud to be person of faith.

0:30:46 - (Nicole): Yeah.

0:30:46 - (Peter): And I do that.

0:30:47 - (Ezra): Yeah.

0:30:47 - (Nicole): That's beautiful. Ezra, if someone is leaving school right now and they're thinking, I don't know what I want to do, do you have any advice for them? As a wise ten year old?

0:30:56 - (Ezra): Yes, I'm very wise.

0:30:59 - (Nicole): What would you say to someone who's about to leave school and goes, I don't know what I want to do.

0:31:03 - (Ezra): Try something that you think you'll like, but then if you don't like it, maybe try something else.

0:31:09 - (Nicole): I think that is brilliant advice.

0:31:11 - (Peter): Wow.

0:31:11 - (Nicole): Yeah, that's really wise. I think we'll wrap it up there. That was just a lovely way to end it. Thank you, Peter.

0:31:17 - (Peter): Thank you.

0:31:17 - (Nicole): Thank you, Ezra.

0:31:18 - (Ezra): Thank you.

0:31:20 - (Nicole): Bye, everyone. Bye. Coming up next, we'll talk to Carlie and her kids Lennox and Harlow.

0:32:03 - (Nicole): You don't want to miss this one. Talk to you then. Bring your kid to work is a Lioness Media production this episode was produced and edited by me, Nicole Lessio. Our music is composed by Rakkuo with graphics and design from Anastasia Makhuka. Subscribe to bring your kid to work wherever you're listening right now to hear all our episodes and you can also share with your friends. We hope they enjoy listening too.

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